meetings/irc: opensync-20081217.log

[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:02:35] Topic dgollub sets the channel topic to "OpenSync project IRC Meeting | no support question please".
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:02:46] <dgollub> whos present?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:02:51] * dgollub present
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:02:54] * bluelightning present
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:02:58] * Savago here.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:03:03] <mkoller> watching
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:03:33] <dgollub> 1. Action Items from previous Meetings
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:03:33] <dgollub> * AI fm: evaluate setup for "user-stories" depending on infra. decision made
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:03:36] <dgollub> later and mail suggestion to opensync-devel@ for further comments
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:03:41] * azeem watching
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:04:02] <dgollub> fm isn't arround...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:04:15] <dgollub> anyone knows status about this? Savago ?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:05:14] <dgollub> ok ... next
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:05:18] <dgollub> * AI Savago: draft "user-stories" guideline for "users" and for the "board" which should rate those user-stories
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:05:40] <dgollub> Savago: coudl you comment on thtat?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:05:52] * Savago back.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:06:12] <dgollub> perfect ... i give you some minutes to catch up
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:06:12] <Savago> I have being searching on this.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:07:08] <Savago> Even if I have used this concept in my work, I'm still reading more about the subject *before* writing...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:07:19] <dgollub> ok - so this WIP
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:07:28] <Savago> I'm planning to have a draft of this guidelines in 5 days, ok?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:07:52] <dgollub> no problem... take your time - holiday is coming
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:08:05] <dgollub> * AI dgollub: try http://trac-hacks.org/ticket/771
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:08:25] <dgollub> i didn't managed to look into that more closley ... i tried to work on the high prio. bugs
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:08:42] <dgollub> i look into that asap the high prio. bugs get less...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:08:48] <dgollub> * AI ChrisH: help bricks moving doxygen API docu to header files
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:09:21] <dgollub> i had a brief chat with ChrisH ... he sent some of his work to bricks
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:09:42] <dgollub> so this is also WIP .. and we cover some more of the stuff later in item #3
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:09:49] <dgollub> * AI Savago: draft new/more detailed "CODE DOCUMENTATION" chapter for
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:09:50] <dgollub> trunk/CODING and send it to opensync-devel@ for feedback
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:10:19] <Savago> I consider that done. I commited it to the file in trunk.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:10:26] <dgollub> ok - cool
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:10:35] <bluelightning> yes, good work on that
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:10:45] <dgollub> next item?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:11:04] <dgollub> ok - noone objects
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:11:10] <dgollub> 2. Infrastructure * CDash mail notification * New Server location
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:11:10] <bluelightning> go ahead :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:11:33] <dgollub> the cdash mail notification is still not working ... not quite sure if anyone beside ChrisH and me was using this
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:11:47] <bluelightning> I admit I don't even know what it is :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:11:55] * Savago too.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:12:18] <dgollub> you can register on opensync.org/testing .. to get mails if certain hosts or all hosts of a project start facing regression in various test results
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:12:34] <dgollub> e.g. code coverage regression, failing testcaes, performance/test-time regression, ....
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:12:45] <bluelightning> ah, ok... something definitely worth having then
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:13:01] <dgollub> but yeah -broken right now.. but iirc there should be RSS feed
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:13:09] <dgollub> which is an alternative
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:13:31] <dgollub> e.g. http://opensync.org/testing/rss/SubmissionRSSOpenSync.xml
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:13:39] <dgollub> this is per project...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:14:17] <dgollub> btw. if someone has unittests for the plugin just ping me and i create cdash project...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:14:26] <dgollub> so people can setup contionous testing for plugins
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:14:46] <dgollub> i did this already for file-sync... but didn't setup yet a contionous build host
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:14:52] <bluelightning> again, something worth having... I haven't spent the time to do that for my plugin yet
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:15:37] <dgollub> for "device" plugins it's maybe a bit difficult.. but you can try to write some mock-plugin-wrapper so at least some of your code get tested
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:15:43] <Savago> hum... it seems that only file-sync (between all plugins) has utests?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:15:49] <dgollub> yep
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:16:04] <Savago> What if the plugin requires network access to contact a remote server (i.e. google)?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:16:06] <Savago> Is it ok?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:16:08] <dgollub> osyncplugin should be quite helpful in writing plugin tests
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:16:23] <dgollub> sure - why not... those tests are _not_ running on opensync.org
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:16:37] <Savago> cool, I will check that in future. :-)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:16:50] <dgollub> there are individual hosts running those tests.. and their owner have to decide if they want to run test which req. network access or not
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:17:01] <dgollub> Savago: you might want to setup your workstation for contionous testing...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:17:07] <dgollub> .. for the google plugin
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:17:50] <dgollub> ok next item:
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:17:54] <dgollub> * New Server location
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:18:09] <dgollub> there is not much progress... i talked to Tuju about this briefly...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:18:11] <dgollub> Tuju: are you around?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:18:33] <dgollub> and there was not much further comments on the opensync-devel@ list reg. the project infra. topic from michael
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:19:22] <Savago> this one is thorny... hosting costs are quite high in Brazil.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:20:16] <bluelightning> do we have time at the moment for major infrastructure changes?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:20:25] <dgollub> actually not
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:20:27] <bluelightning> or can it be postponed until after 0.40?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:20:38] <dgollub> actually i hoped to post pone it for 0.40
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:20:52] <dgollub> but people got pretty annoyed with the last outage and with my very bad admin skills
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:21:17] <Savago> heheheheh... but no one is willing to take the hot potato.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:21:19] <Savago> ;-)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:21:24] <dgollub> otoh nobody provided a new location - and SF is not an option when we want stay with trac
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:22:00] <Savago> What about KDE hosting?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:22:12] <dgollub> hmm.. would be kind of the same "location" :P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:22:17] <azeem> I don't think people are really annoyed
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:22:39] <dgollub> our server is actually very close to some of the kde server.. but dont tell anyone :P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:22:54] <Savago> ah... ok. I didn't known that.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:22:56] <azeem> dgollub: if the status quo is possible to keep (I was under the assumption there were external restraints forcing us to relocate), I vote for keeping it
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:23:14] <azeem> not that I have a vote anyway, just saying
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:23:32] <azeem> (however, I think it makes sense to migrate mid/long-term to something else)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:23:59] <dgollub> ok .. so just close with this: since nobody offered a new location there is no infra. change before 0.40
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:23:59] <azeem> dgollub: how much time did it take for you to admin over the last week?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:24:06] <azeem> i.e. since the apache issues have been resolved
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:24:08] <dgollub> azeem: more then acutal coding
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:24:12] <azeem> bah
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:24:23] <bluelightning> :(
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:24:27] <dgollub> and i got ton of tiny interrupts ... doing this CSS thing .. doing that and so on
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:24:51] <Savago> dgollub, and what about google-code? I think they have servers that can take the load?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:24:52] <dgollub> oh - yeah .. moving to another lcoation would help to unload the admin - since i could give root to various people
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:25:01] <dgollub> the current location is a bit hot to give away root..
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:25:09] <azeem> Savago: do they have trac?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:25:17] <dgollub> Savago: it's not about the load .. it's about our stuff we're running
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:25:33] <dgollub> we pinned ourselfs on a SQL-database, trac and SVN
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:25:39] <Savago> azeem, I got to check (I think probably they don't...).
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:25:55] <Savago> But at least svn could be mirrored.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:26:11] <azeem> svn is not an issue, AIUI
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:26:16] <dgollub> trac is the biggest problem.. since it kind of needs to run on the same system ... or you try to mirror somehow the repo
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:26:23] <azeem> you rarely need to root to fixup svn
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:26:28] <dgollub> .. on the same system with the svn repo...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:26:44] <Savago> ok... google is no option then.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:28:08] <dgollub> i wonder how big the pain would be if we would decide to switch from svn to git after 0.40....
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:28:26] <dgollub> SVN is really a hot thing... since you're lost if the repo is gone
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:28:32] <Savago> dgollub, when this happen, I think KDE would have migrated already.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:28:44] <bluelightning> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_software_hosting_facilities
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:28:50] <dgollub> and trac knows about git ...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:29:00] <Savago> There will be people in the community with the knownledge to help.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:29:14] <dgollub> btw. - in case doomsday comes - we have already an unoffical git svn mirror...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:29:22] <dgollub> http://repo.or.cz/w/opensync.git
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:29:35] <bluelightning> I assume we also have backups too ;)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:29:55] <dgollub> yeah - 30gb of backups...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:29:59] <bluelightning> whoa
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:30:11] <Savago> Nah... I have more mp3 files...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:30:16] <Savago> :-D
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:30:20] <dgollub> by accident i kept debugging-log enabled in trac on opensync.org it crowed pretty fast to 1GB
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:30:28] <dgollub> but we have for each day now backup of this
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:30:42] * ChrisH joined
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:30:50] <dgollub> it's disabled now .. the backups are less then 1gb per day
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:31:19] <dgollub> but the git repo is kind of our life-insurance...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:31:26] <dgollub> it contains the entire history
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:31:42] <dgollub> (wihtout tags... i was to lazy to do that.. thats why i call it unoffical svn mirror)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:31:46] <dgollub> and its only /trunk
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:31:57] <Savago> Which folders where cloned on the git mirror?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:31:57] <dgollub> but perfect to go offline hacking opensync-core
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:31:59] <Savago> ah, ok.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:32:30] <dgollub> ok ... lets do next topic and post-pone infra. stuff after 0.40
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:32:39] <bluelightning> sounds good to me
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:32:56] <dgollub> try to avoid infra. update-request till 0.40 please :P so i can keep coding
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:33:01] <dgollub> 3. Doxygen / API * Status
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:33:13] <dgollub> bluelightning: thanks for the doxygen stuff work -- veryyyyyyyyyyy appreciated!
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:33:21] <bluelightning> np :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:33:28] Join fm has joined this channel (n=fm@PPPOE-05-0156.UNI-MUENSTER.DE).
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:33:31] <dgollub> whats the status there?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:33:38] <bluelightning> I have fixed a fair bit lately... not sure of % completed
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:33:44] <dgollub> how should we proceed .. should we try to find more volutneers?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:33:59] <dgollub> bluelightning: do you go through file by file .. or by doxygen.log warnings?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:34:01] <dgollub> hi fm
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:34:07] <fm> sorry i am late ... :-(
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:34:15] <bluelightning> dgollub: both
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:34:21] <bluelightning> I think we are OK for manpower unless people want to contribute individual bits and pieces
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:34:40] <bluelightning> in general the stuff that is done is a little sparse though, we could do with some more explanatory text
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:35:04] <bluelightning> something that is hard to come up with unless you fully understand the code and its purpose :(
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:35:09] <dgollub> fm: no problem - we already charged one euro on your coming-late-account :P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:35:40] <bluelightning> for 0.40 the most important parts of course are the plugin API and client API, in that order
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:35:55] <bluelightning> client API is not very well documented atm as I'm sure you know
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:35:59] Join afiestas has joined this channel (n=afiestas@112.224.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es).
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:36:08] <dgollub> bluelightning: is there any doxgen syntax we could use that complicated code which needs description can be tagged? so i would read through those and write the description?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:36:22] <dgollub> "client API" is dangerous term ;)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:36:31] <bluelightning> dgollub: ok, frontend API then :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:36:44] <dgollub> aaaah "frontend" is also a bad term i leanred recently :P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:36:59] <dgollub> beacuse of this makes opensync look like a desktop-only sync-farmework
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:37:09] <bluelightning> what term would you use to describe eg. gnome-sync, kitchensync then?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:37:10] <dgollub> "consumer" ... sounds also like crap
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:37:18] <dgollub> yeah gnome-sync and kitchensync are frontend
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:37:19] <azeem> "opensyncer"
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:37:22] <dgollub> hehe
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:37:32] <bluelightning> controller?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:37:37] <Savago> 'user api' ?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:37:58] <ianmartin> driver?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:38:06] <dgollub> but the idea is also to be able to use opensync inside a "server" ... e.g. a daemon which syncs ldap and remote-peers via SyncML http
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:38:44] <dgollub> oh .. btw. recentently i leanred a new term which could describes "sync-plugins" -> "connectors"
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:39:05] <dgollub> not quite sure if this one is good enough to solve the plugins/sync-plugisn/format-plugins mess...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:39:13] <bluelightning> dgollub: "connectors" sounds good IMO
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:39:25] <dgollub> maybe we should assign an AI to some to define tricky terms which we should try to use in the documentation
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:39:56] <bluelightning> yes I think some further thinking is needed for this topic :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:40:29] <dgollub> hmm .. ok maybe we should do first an AI for someone who write a mail about terminology on opensync-devel .. AFAIk we already have a wiki-page
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:40:39] <dgollub> maybe we can use this as base
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:40:56] <dgollub> http://opensync.org/wiki/terminology
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:41:21] <bluelightning> we also have http://opensync.org/wiki/glossary
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:41:31] <bluelightning> I think Tuju is going to merge these at some point
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:41:34] <dgollub> right...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:41:44] <ChrisH> I do vote for connector
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:41:56] <dgollub> i guess glossary is more for developers .. and terminology is more the user
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:42:08] <dgollub> maybe we should keep this sperated for ... user-/developer-terminology
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:42:17] <bluelightning> yes that's a good idea
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:42:25] <dgollub> and by developer i mean not only opensync-hackers.. i mean people using the OpenSync API to write software
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:42:40] <bluelightning> opensync has a lot of technical internals that users shouldn't need to concern themselves with
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:43:03] <dgollub> the bluetooth spec. contains an entire chapter about UI desgin... and which terms have to be used
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:43:25] <dgollub> (ok - no one read that... otherwise nobody would use the term "pairing")
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:43:35] <bluelightning> heh
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:43:45] <bluelightning> anyway, we have steered off-topic a little bit
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:43:48] <Savago> so, the task is about writing a user-oriented terminology and a tech-oriented glossary?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:43:54] <dgollub> yep
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:43:58] <dgollub> AI takers? volunteers?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:44:13] <dgollub> should we discuss this on -devel@?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:44:18] <bluelightning> I will be away for the next two weeks, so probably not me...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:44:38] <dgollub> one thread for -users term.s and one for -devel@ my epxerince is that mailinglist is faster then wiki .. since on wiki most people loose the track
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:44:43] * Savago going on vacation too...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:44:48] * ChrisH busy with familiy issues
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:45:08] <dgollub> eyyyyy... i use the vaction on hacking opensync?! ok cool time for developing not fixing bugs ;P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:45:21] <dgollub> ..since there is no one filing bugs (at least i hope so :P)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:45:30] <bluelightning> dgollub: that's what I usually do, just not this year
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:45:38] Join BlackDex has joined this channel (n=opera@93-125-176-168.dsl.alice.nl).
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:45:45] <dgollub> ok - lets see what happens next year then:P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:46:12] <dgollub> ok - last call?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:46:32] <bluelightning> ask Tuju if he wouldn't mind when you next speak to him
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:46:44] <Savago> I vote to post pone this terminology/glossary thing.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:47:06] <dgollub> Savago: hmm acutally we need this for the doxygen stuff.. at lesat the developer-term.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:47:21] <dgollub> so lets postpone the users-term. stuff
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:47:56] <bluelightning> btw re doxygen, it would be nice if people would point out specific inadequacies in the doxygen documentation
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:47:56] <dgollub> AI dgollub: assemble list of terms. to use for developer API documentation
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:47:56] <dgollub> ok next topic
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:48:19] <bluelightning> ie, where a function is documented but there could be more explanation of behaviour
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:48:49] <bluelightning> (sorry, I'm interrupting)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:48:52] <dgollub> bluelightning: ok - will try to give some feedback the next days .. i guess best would be to do this via opensync-devel@ so you can reply once youre back from vac.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:48:58] <bluelightning> ok
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:49:14] <dgollub> 4. How to track /trunk changes?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:49:14] <dgollub> * e.g. archive.db needs to get flushed
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:49:14] <dgollub> * e.g. plugin configuration XSD changed
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:49:14] <dgollub> * Suggestion 1: Wiki-Page-Logfile with brief summary and things todo for
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:49:14] <dgollub> testers/developers to get /trunk working again
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:49:17] <dgollub> * Suggestion 2: short mails to opensync-devel@
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:49:28] <dgollub> any further suggestions?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:49:39] <dgollub> if not .. i would just quickly vote here for #1 or #2...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:50:14] <fm> i think a mail to the mailinglist is more visible
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:50:15] <dgollub> (everyone actually understands what the item is about? or is some more detailed explanation required?)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:50:17] <Savago> I have 1 question: what should be commented on the opensync-devel?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:50:26] <ianmartin> if #2 should there be a standard subject line
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:50:45] <dgollub> ianmartin: what about a tag [trunk]
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:51:04] <fm> sounds good to me
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:51:20] <bluelightning> #2 should be OK IMO
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:51:23] <dgollub> Savago: i guess everything which would require changes for users to keep testing latest trunk...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:51:38] <Savago> Does that apply to plugins?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:51:43] <dgollub> ... everyhting which plugin authors need to now to keep their plugin building/working...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:51:46] <dgollub> Savago: yes...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:52:05] <ChrisH> #2 with the needed actions
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:52:06] <Savago> hum... so the tag [trunk] only apply to opensync itself.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:52:17] <Savago> Maybe another tag [plugin]?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:52:26] <dgollub> Savago: hmm.. wait by plugin you mean "plugin" - i jsut thought about plugin api changes...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:52:30] <ChrisH> [ACTION]
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:52:49] <bluelightning> this is just about making sure plugin authors can keep up with API changes I thought
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:52:56] <bluelightning> (which has been an issue in the past)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:53:02] <dgollub> yep
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:53:14] <dgollub> so .. we just define some guideline how this needs to be done for /trunk
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:53:15] <Savago> e.g. [plugin]: syncml requires new libobex vs foo-666.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:53:25] <dgollub> it's about to the plugin author to do this .. or to do this not
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:53:31] <dgollub> Savago: if you like just do [plugin]
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:53:47] <dgollub> but i would not "force" plugin authros to do this...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:54:05] <dgollub> .. and i don't would forbid it
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:54:23] <Savago> ok, cool.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:54:42] <dgollub> so ... is everyone ok wiht #2?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:55:05] <bluelightning> or more to the point, anyone not ok with #2?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:55:06] * Savago thinks is fine.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:55:32] <fm> yeah it shouldn't be forced. Might be good to announce some changes one or two days in advande. i.e the wbxml version bump disabled wbxml support in the opensuse buildservice packages
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:55:36] <fm> fine with #2
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:55:52] <dgollub> should we ust just a tag for this?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:56:15] <dgollub> [trunk] / [ACTION] / [ANNOUCNMENT] / ...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:56:18] <dgollub> please vote now.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:56:24] <Savago> [trunk].
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:56:30] <fm> [trunk]
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:56:33] <bluelightning> [trunk]
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:56:36] <Savago> because is a developer thing.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:56:55] <ChrisH> [ACTION] :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:57:23] <bluelightning> I'd be fine with [ACTION] also :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:58:22] <bluelightning> no more votes?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:58:28] <dgollub> ok [trunk] - period. :P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:58:45] <dgollub> ChrisH: feel free to use [action] - [ACTION] is protected tag of ChrisH
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:13] <dgollub> next topic?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:17] <Savago> [ACTION] TM by ChrisH Co. Patent pending.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:19] <Savago> :-D
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:28] <bluelightning> yep
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:31] <dgollub> 5. Capabilities / Discovery in Plugins
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:32] <dgollub> * Lots of testing done completely without capabilities
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:32] <dgollub> o high-load
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:32] <dgollub> o lots of invalid bugs
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:32] <dgollub> o duplicates
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:34] <dgollub> * Lack of example implementation
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:37] <dgollub> * Lack of documentation
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [19:59:55] <dgollub> to make things more clear for the testers:
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:00:12] <dgollub> if you hit duplicates ... it's to 80% because of missing use of capabilities in plugins
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:00:24] <dgollub> (the other 20% are broken patches from dgollub)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:00:44] <ianmartin> :-)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:00:45] <bluelightning> I think in the past it was kind of considered optional to have them, whereas it should be highly recommended
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:00:58] <dgollub> indeed...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:01:05] <bluelightning> unless your plugin can handle every single possible field that is :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:01:18] <ChrisH> could you me more verbose on "missing use of capabilities"?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:01:25] <dgollub> correct. so i state this also in the mintues.. that capabiliteis are _really_ important
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:02:08] <dgollub> ChrisH: if you don't have ~/.opensync/groupX/Y/capabilities.xml then the plugin is not using capabilities and it's very likely that you get duplicates
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:02:19] <bluelightning> particularly on slow-sync
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:02:20] <dgollub> or lots of conflicts on a slow-sync
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:02:39] <Savago> I'm not using them. Is there an example plugin using it?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:03:05] <dgollub> because one peer (add to term list) doesn't support Field-A .. so it's missing and on a compare this would results in a "mistmacht" or "similar" .. but not "same"
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:03:09] <dgollub> mismatch -> duplicate
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:03:13] <dgollub> similar -> conflict
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:03:24] <dgollub> same -> smoothing sync
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:03:26] <dgollub> -ing
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:03:37] <ChrisH> I just checked my groups, looks like non is having capabilities.xml
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:03:38] <dgollub> Savago: thats the problem...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:03:53] <dgollub> Savago: we're lacking a real reference implementation
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:04:13] <Savago> ouch!
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:04:25] <dgollub> i tried to explain sevveral times how this is supposed to work (last time i guess yesterday on opensync-devel@)...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:04:40] <dgollub> ... but never manged to find time to implement this on my own
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:04:58] <bluelightning> I did add something to the doxygen docs on capabilities recently, but that's kind of hidden
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:04:59] <ianmartin> there seem to be two use cases, static capabilities that can be known at plugin creation time, and dynamic capabilities that can only be determined by asking the peer
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:05:00] <dgollub> just a side note: i didn't wrote the capabilities/merger code...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:05:24] <dgollub> i just read the impelmentation ... and put manual capabilities.xml in place
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:05:37] <dgollub> ianmartin: exactly.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:05:37] <Savago> I'm a volunteer to implement that in any plugin (filesync, whatever). I will only need some directions.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:05:50] <ianmartin> i'm looking at in evo2-sync
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:05:55] <ianmartin> but need a little more info
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:06:07] <dgollub> ianmartin: don't hesistate to flood opensync-devel@ with question
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:06:08] <Savago> who wrote the code?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:06:48] <dgollub> Savago: f-bert aka. Daniel Friedrich .. but the code works (i guess) ... at least there are some tests.. and if you place manual capabilites.xml the merger/demerge get active...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:07:26] <dgollub> so for pim-application plugisn .. like kdepim-sync, evo2-sync and mozilla-sync ... the easiest and also sane implementation is the "static" one
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:07:29] <Savago> ok.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:07:42] Join edisson has joined this channel (n=edisson@189.2.128.130).
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:07:43] <ianmartin> not for evo2-sync
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:07:52] <dgollub> ianmartin: to different capabilities?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:08:09] <ianmartin> the capabilities change depending on the backend you are talking to
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:08:24] <dgollub> AI dgollub: introduce example-plugin using static-capabilities
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:08:46] <dgollub> ianmartin: ohhhhhh... ok thats the same for kdepim-sync ./
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:08:47] <ianmartin> as the evolution plugin can talk to anything that the evolution-data-server can eg Outlook web access, google contacts
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:09:03] <dgollub> ianmartin: does e-d-s provide interface to gain the capabilities?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:09:07] <ianmartin> yes
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:09:24] <ianmartin> dgollub, but they are in a format that needs translating
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:09:41] <dgollub> ok .. then you have to map this to xmlformat-$objtype names and use the OSyncCapabilities mdoule to assmble a capabilites object and attach this to OSyncPluginInfo in the discover function
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:09:45] <ianmartin> dgollub, have done this for the contacts
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:10:04] <dgollub> e.g. "N:" -> "Name" "TEL:" -> "Telephone"
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:10:11] <dgollub> ianmartin: really? already committed?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:10:16] <ianmartin> not committed
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:10:24] <ianmartin> trying to figure out when to do it
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:10:29] <dgollub> Savago: for google contact i guess you could use static capbailiteis
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:10:35] <Savago> ianmartin, how you made the conversion?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:10:44] <ianmartin> using hash table
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:10:44] <Savago> dgollub, cool. Good to known.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:11:03] <dgollub> Savago: you only have to use dynmaic if you know that your "peer" will differ all the time
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:11:13] <dgollub> Savago: e.g. SyncML plugin which has to deal with all kinds of mobiles..
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:11:19] <dgollub> Savago: and diferent formats
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:11:35] <Savago> I mean... where is this hash table? Is it in C code? And how you assemble the osync xmlformat?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:11:55] <dgollub> AI dgollub: add capabilities chapter into plugin-section of the whitepaper - as requested by graham
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:11:58] <Savago> ianmartin, maybe XSLT could be used to make this conversion...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:12:12] <dgollub> Savago: it's not worth to use XSLt.. it's just about field names
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:12:40] <dgollub> Savago: you only pass the "field"-name to the interface.. and have to call for each field osync_capabilities_add_xyz()
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:12:41] <Savago> dgollub, really? Ok. I thought that it required parsing too. :-)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:12:43] <ianmartin> Savago there is an example in symcl/src/syncml_vformat.c
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:12:49] <dgollub> Savago: it depends on your interace
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:13:15] <dgollub> exactly.. the syncml plugin already "caches" the capabilites.. but unfortuntely not by using OSyncCapabilites... it just get dumped in a database
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:13:19] <dgollub> i plan to port that
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:13:40] <dgollub> maybe i should start with the syncml plugin.. since this is the hottest-capabiliteis plugin.. since the capabilities change with every phone
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:14:04] <ianmartin> quick q, has connect been called before discover?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:14:31] <dgollub> ianmartin: no - you have to call connect() by your own in discover ...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:14:44] <ianmartin> ok
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:14:53] <dgollub> ianmartin: the reason is that you might have to do your own special connect... or you already need to now for connect()-fucntion what you need to sync
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:15:27] <ianmartin> ok
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:15:36] <dgollub> ianmartin: antoher reason is ... the discovery is also intended to use to find out which objtype exist at all....
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:15:43] <ianmartin> yup
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:15:45] <dgollub> .. so you don't know which connect()-sink function you can call
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:15:51] <dgollub> so thats another reason to not call connect
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:16:00] <dgollub> .. from the engine
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:16:10] <dgollub> instead do a special-connect inside your discovery function
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:16:24] <dgollub> chicken-egg problem
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:16:38] <dgollub> next top?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:16:51] <ianmartin> yeah will send email about more
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:16:56] <dgollub> ianmartin: (we can continue discussion on opensync-devl@)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:16:58] <dgollub> ok cool
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:17:01] <dgollub> so next top:
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:17:06] <dgollub> 6. Documentation / Whitepaper * missing chapters * discovery/capabilities chapter
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:17:26] <dgollub> so yeha - i already mentioned the discovery/capabilities chapter.. i need to do that - but first i do a real implementation
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:17:38] <dgollub> * missing chapters
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:18:02] * bluelightning shamefully admits he has not read the latest whitepaper
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:18:13] <dgollub> (it didn't change since january)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:18:26] <bluelightning> ah ok, I'm off the hook then :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:18:32] <dgollub> so it's nearly one year untouched
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:18:39] <bluelightning> hmm
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:19:19] <dgollub> AI all-plugin-developers: send-in the hardest implementation steps/highest OpenSync barriers when you started with OpenSync
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:19:38] <dgollub> ... which should get avoided by proper whitepaper section/chapter
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:19:57] <dgollub> more to add? - or next top?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:20:17] <ChrisH> next
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:20:25] <dgollub> 7. Next IRC Meeting * who will write next minutes? who will be backup? * Next Meeting - reschedule to 2008-12-24T09:00Z?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:20:27] <Savago> heheheheh... 'tales from the trenches'
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:21:46] <dgollub> next week is tricky i guess because of the holidays
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:21:51] <fm> will not be there
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:22:05] <Savago> about the next meeting: that would be @5AM of my localtime.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:22:47] <dgollub> ok - indepdendent of time - anyone who would be available on 24th during the day
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:22:50] <dgollub> ?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:23:09] <dgollub> or is everyone travelling on this day already? ;)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:23:17] * ChrisH cannot promise anything.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:23:37] <Savago> I can be available from 14hs to 18hs UTC.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:24:05] <dgollub> or should we move it to 23th?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:24:17] <dgollub> i guess later is even worse
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:24:30] <Savago> I think 23th is better.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:24:39] <fm> 23rd ist better
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:24:41] <ChrisH> 23rd is better
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:25:13] <dgollub> what about 23th at 19h UTC?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:25:42] <fm> I'd prefer earlier
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:25:59] <dgollub> 14h? or 9h?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:26:19] <fm> I guess 14 is better for Savago
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:26:39] <Savago> yep! :-)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:26:43] <fm> and would be fine with me also ;)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:27:52] <ChrisH> Needed to check my paper calender, as I still cannot sync it to my mobile :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:28:04] <fm> ChrisH: ;)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:28:06] <dgollub> Next Meeting: 2008-12-23T14:00:00Z
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:28:13] <dgollub> Minutes-Taker next time?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:28:18] <dgollub> volunteers?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:28:27] <dgollub> Or volunteers for backup?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:28:42] <fm> I could try but cannot garuntee to be there.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:29:20] <dgollub> fm: no problem - if something blocks you from attending - just drop a mail on opensync-devel...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:29:31] <dgollub> so we can arrange quickly someone else .P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:29:35] <dgollub> Next Minutes: fm
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:29:38] <dgollub> Backup: ??
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:29:55] <ChrisH> I think I could be a backup for minutes....
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:29:58] <ChrisH> but...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:29:58] <dgollub> awesome
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:30:11] <ChrisH> depending on workload in the office.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:30:15] <dgollub> Backup: Chrish - Meeting closed.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:30:29] <bluelightning> while everyone is still here, anyone considering going to FOSDEM next year?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:30:30] <dgollub> ChrisH: no problem ...
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:30:53] <dgollub> bluelightning: yep - maybe... depending on the shape of opensync i plan to do a opensync talk or not :P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:31:12] <ChrisH> I did some modifications to http://opensync.org/wiki/terminology Is that the way it should develop to?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:31:13] <fm> me not. but probably linuxtag ;)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:31:36] <bluelightning> it's likely I will go, would be great to meet up with some opensync people there :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:32:01] <bluelightning> ChrisH: that's what Tuju would like it to look like I believe
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:32:27] <Savago> I'm planning to go to FOSDEM next year. :-)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:32:28] <fm> ChrisH: why to we use html tables trac has syntax for that too
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:32:43] <Savago> And you guys known about Bossa Conference?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:32:50] <ChrisH> I only added content, the html stuff was in before
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:33:12] <dgollub> Savago: sure. bossa is by far the best located conference
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:33:32] <dgollub> Savago: reserve tons of opensync talks slots and allocate travel budget for everyone :P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:33:43] <Savago> Not only best located, but also with outstanding developers attending.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:34:02] <dgollub> Savago: this depends of the amount of opensync-developer you plan to invite :P
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:34:51] <Phlogi> anyone could tell me the steps to try out contact syncing with akonadi?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:34:54] <dgollub> for those - who don't know what i meant by best located: http://www.linuxuwb.org/thewiki/LinuxUWBUserArch200703
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:34:58] <Savago> Hahahah... I'm just a code monkey. But I can ask my manager about inviting some opensync people.
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:35:24] <fm> i have to reboot to check on a bugreport. bye bye
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:35:31] Quit fm has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:35:53] <Savago> official site: http://www.bossaconference.indt.org/
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:38:31] <Phlogi> I have setup this kabc adressbook ressource in akonadi... now what? :)
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:42:23] <dgollub> Phlogi: the akondai plugin is under development
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:42:47] <dgollub> btw. anyone is logging this channel?
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:42:50] <dgollub> i need the logs of the meeting
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:43:13] Topic dgollub sets the channel topic to "http://opensync.org/ 0.38 | http://libsyncml.opensync.org/ 0.5.0 | http://libwbxml.opensync.org/ 0.10.0 | http://www.bluez.org/openobex/ 1.4 | http://opensync.org/wiki/faq | http://pastebin.com/".
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:43:24] <bluelightning> dgollub: yes, hang on a sec I will email you the log
[Wed Dec 17 2008] [20:43:30] <dgollub> bluelightning: cool - thanks