meetings/irc: opensync-20081120.log

[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:33:25] <fm>       ok who is going the lead the meeting my clock says 15:30 is passed
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:33:46] <bellmich> Tuju made the agenda so he should lead.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:33:47] <fm>       i would say yes;) i have a lecture at 16:15
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:33:53] <Tuju>     bellmich: i was hoping that dgollub will come :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:33:59] <fm>       ok let's start Tuju
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:34:02] <Tuju>     but yes, i can do it 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:34:28] <yves1>    bellmich: okey, it's working now, thanx
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:35:04] <Tuju>     ------------- 1. Action Items from previous Meetings ---------------------
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:35:14] <Tuju>      = OpenSync Ticket/Bug Policy =
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:35:14] <Tuju>      - AI bellmich: Which combination of libsyncml and SyncML are supported?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:35:14] <Tuju>      - AI bellmich: Bug Policy for libsyncml - same as for OpenSync?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:35:14] <Tuju>      - AI dgollub: The BugMangement wikipage needs a link on the ticket-form
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:35:14] <Tuju>      - AI dgollub: for fm/public read-only access to trac ticket sqlite database
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:35:14] <Tuju>      - AI tuju: polish http://opensync.org/wiki/BugManagement 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:35:55] <fm>       I got access by dgollub and prepared a little script, he dumps the database via cronjob
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:36:06] <Tuju>     yes, he filled his AI
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:36:19] <Tuju>     i've polished the bugManagement page.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:36:46] <Tuju>     dgollub also added the link to the wiki page
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:36:47] <bellmich> Generally SyncML/OMA DS 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 are supported incl. OBEX and HTTP server and client support.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:37:13] <fm>       you may look for an output at http://pastebin.com/m1589e286
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:37:15] <bellmich> Only SAN over HTTP OTA is not supported.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:37:48] <fm>       this is based on sql queries so can be expanded ;)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:37:50] Topic      You set the channel topic to " OpenSync Project IRC Meeting | No support/bugfixing during this time".
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:38:09] <dgollub>  (sorry - i'm late :()
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:38:23] <Tuju>     dgollub: no problem, good that you make it
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:38:43] <fm>       what do you think about adding a [NEEDINFO] to the subject to clarify where the reporter needs to do something
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:38:49] <scud>     good morning
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:38:58] <fm>       as I think just these should be closed after 30 days
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:39:03] <Tuju>     fm that would be good, especially if the metadata doesn't support it.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:39:12] <Tuju>     we use metadata in redhat's bugzilla.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:39:24] <fm>       otherwise we would close nearly everything, but solve no issues :-(
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:39:44] <Tuju>     yep, there are literally tons of bugs 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:39:53] <Tuju>     or tickets - more generally
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:40:04] <fm>       yes maybe with trac 0.11 we would get supprt for this but it does sound quiet complex. (workfllows in trac)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:40:05] <yves1>    tuju: libsyncml does not support one way syncs. if this is of interest
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:40:25] <Tuju>     yves1: yes.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:40:36] <Tuju>     bellmich: thanks for the first item.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:40:41] <bellmich> Bug policies of libsyncml and OpenSync should not differ.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:40:48] <Tuju>     ack, good.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:41:03] <dgollub>  fm: i looked at trac 0.11 - i didn't undertsand the workflow - and didn't found any timer req. needinfo
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:41:13] <Tuju>     dgollub: do you have anything about your AI's? we made note that you've filled them.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:41:18] <dgollub>  reg. 15:35 < Tuju>  - AI dgollub: The BugMangement wikipage needs a link on the ticket-form
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:41:32] <dgollub>  this link is also in libsyncml new-ticket page ...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:41:38] <Tuju>     ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:41:44] <dgollub>  since it's the same trac code i patched
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:42:05] <Tuju>     late as usual, it has crossed my mind that should it have been called as 'Ticket' not as 'Bug' as there are other stuff too :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:42:17] <dgollub>   http://libsyncml.opensync.org/wiki/BugManagement - but we need to create this page
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:42:25] <Tuju>     dgollub: ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:42:30] <Tuju>     i can take that AI.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:42:33] <bellmich> yves1: If you need one way sync then please add a milestone or a ticket and attach it to a milestone.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:42:37] <fm>       i could loo into the workflow of trac in report in probably two weeks. dgollub, Tuju
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:11] <Tuju>     fm ack, i did not go very deep into that either, sorry for that.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:24] <Tuju>     next items, we're in hurry
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:31] <Tuju>      = Documentation/Whitepaper =
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:31] <Tuju>      - AI all: tag content whit doubt to be up to date with:
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:31] <Tuju>            = OUTDATED = 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:31] <Tuju>           at the page's head.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:31] <Tuju>      - AI bricks: adjust CODING style file about API documentation in header files
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:31] <Tuju>      - AI Tuju: Drafting wiki maintance policy and send to opensync-devel list
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:31] <Tuju>      - AI dgollub: Doxygen generation cronjob on opensync.org for
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:31] <Tuju>        http://opensync.org/docs/
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:54] <bricks>   AI bricks: done
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:56] <bellmich> dgollub: Do you think it is a good idea to duplicate everything?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:43:56]     * ChrisH 80% online
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:44:10] <Tuju>     i've moved the old docs under versioning and also added warnings there. but move is still underway.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:44:18] <dgollub>  bellmich: what do you mean by "everything"?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:44:36] <Tuju>     also, i have not yet completed my AI for policy, sorry for that. had real life work too much.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:44:41] <bellmich> dgollub: Documents.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:44:47] <dgollub>  bellmich: which documents?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:44:49] <bricks>   i added a ticket to get all doxgen stuff form c files in the header
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:44:51] <Tuju>     but i'd like to keep it and finish it asap.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:45:00] <bellmich> I would like to make libsyncml.opensync.org as minimalistic as possible.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:45:08] <Tuju>     bellmich: i agree on that.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:45:33] <Tuju>     bellmich: that bug management page just got added into code so it became automatically visible.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:46:19] <bellmich> Tuju: Can we redirect this page to opensync.org?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:46:29] <Tuju>     mmmm
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:46:46] <bellmich> Tuju: Otherwise I can create the page and set a link to opensync.org.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:46:48] <Tuju>     i guess if it's apache virtual server, it could be done with Redirect clausule.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:46:50] <dgollub>  in terms of "BugManagement" - i already talked with Tuju about this - we should place a link which should give a brief overview for "reports"
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:46:59] <dgollub>  and this might differ between libsyncml and OpenSync
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:47:46] <dgollub>  e.g. instruction what kind of information should be prepared - which is very device-generic in OpenSync - but could be very device specific in libsyncml BugMamagnet/BugReportInstruction site...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:48:04] <dgollub>  iirc Tuju refactored the BugManagment in OpenSync after the  discssuion...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:48:05] <dgollub>  let me check
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:48:22] <Tuju>     yep i did something for it :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:49:04] <dgollub>  in my opionen we could do the description field for libsyncml more specific for SyncML typical problems ...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:49:05] <Tuju>     i guess it was mostly moving it more readable form
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:49:31] <dgollub>  and also give more detailed description for problems with plugins or stuff like that
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:49:41] Notify     arty went offline (irc.freenode.org).
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:49:57] <Tuju>     heh - the 'Full description' field is missing from that BugManagement page :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:49:58] <dgollub>  but keep it sort of brief - it wouldn't be brief if we mix up "brief"-descriptions of libsyncml and OpenSync and OpenSync plugins....
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:50:35] <Tuju>     yep - we also need to keep it human friendly enough
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:51:21] <bellmich> http://libsyncml.opensync.org/ticket/197
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:51:32] <Tuju>     well, i think it might fall too much apart from each other if the pages would be different.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:51:54] <Tuju>     perhaps not everyone does not remember to update both pages after editing
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:52:18] <bellmich> We should proceed with the next point. (time)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:52:24] <Tuju>     yep
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:52:34] <Tuju>      = Plugins for 0.40 =
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:52:34] <Tuju>      - AI ChrisH: collectin 0.22 configs from users 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:52:34] <Tuju>        (TBD: announcement on mailinglists)   
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:52:40] <Tuju>     ChrisH: ping
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:53:04] <Tuju>     ChrisH mailed the template to the devel list
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:53:08] <Tuju>     did everyone see it?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:53:19] <Tuju>     comments? dgollub commented to the list already.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:53:35] <Tuju>     how about the scripting the whole thing?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:53:38] <ChrisH>   Tuju: I did only send it to a few selected ones.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:53:47] <Tuju>     ah, sorry.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:54:18] <Tuju>     well, i think we can iterate the working one with the people who got it.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:54:31] <Tuju>     ChrisH: is that ok?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:54:36] <ChrisH>   scripting would be an option, but this is only a simple tar file.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:54:47] <Tuju>     yep
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:54:55] <Tuju>     let's take next item 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:01] <ChrisH>   I asked for the mobile version and Firmware to build list of known devices.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>     2. Documentation/Whitepaper
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>      - API Documentation, req. API freeze/shrink (postponed last time)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>      - volunteers to increase the quality of the Doxygen coverage?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>      - is whitepaper update needed yet?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>      - create libsyncml error code page since it's a FAQ
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>      - create general status page about versions, what plugins are ported etc -
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>        for users. 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>      - make a guide what is mandatory info when posting to the mailing list
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:11] <Tuju>        (versions, what plugins, what configs etc)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:55:46] <Tuju>     API docs - any new comments or shall we postpone again?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:56:29] <dgollub>  did anyone started shrinking the API?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:56:35] <Tuju>     i guess this requirement of freeze is something that cannot be done until we know the UI consumption
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:56:46] <Tuju>     dgollub: i guess not
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:56:50] <dgollub>  first we should shrink...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:57:05] <Tuju>     this item should have been discussed with roadmap
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:57:20] <Tuju>     yep, postponing the item
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:57:21] <Tuju>     next
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:57:25] <teprrr>   is there some kind of a documentation about what are the parts a gui devel has to implement to get barely minimal functionality?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:57:39] <Tuju>     dgollub ?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:57:41] <bricks>   teprrr: msynctool ;)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:57:52] <dgollub>  Tuju: yes - msynctool  as reference
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:57:56] <dgollub>  i meann teprrr
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:58:03] <Tuju>     perhaps gui allows more than tui?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:58:14] <dgollub>  and i thought tere were some frontend PoC/HowTo in the wiki in the doc section for 0.2x
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:58:19] <dgollub>  how to write a minimal opensync frontend
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:58:20] <Tuju>     like what options are available to draw selection dialogs/widgets?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:58:45] <Tuju>     and thus the gui requirements would be bigger than tui?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:58:52] <teprrr>   bricks, yeah. I was looking for something like a list of calls one need to implement, but indeed, msynctool could do it ;)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:59:08] <dgollub>  lets make an AI - i'll shrink the AI to minimal to msynctool and the plugins build - we still can re-add stuff for complex GUIs if requested
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:59:18] <Tuju>     dgollub: ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:59:32] <Tuju>     that will force the api testing.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:59:39] <dgollub>  i'll move lots of stuff into _private.h
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [16:59:59] <Tuju>     dgollub: any comments of whitepaper requirement and time use at this point? should that be on low pri?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:00:09] <dgollub>  and hopefully next week we can assign API documentation work .. everything public needs doxygen coverrage
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:00:19] <Tuju>     i guess you're the few rare people to write that....
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:00:30] <Tuju>     dgollub: yes
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:00:46] <dgollub>  could you please file a ticket for whitepaper requirment to me and add a list of required/requested info?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:00:56] <Tuju>     dgollub: yes, AI for tuju
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:01:24] <bellmich> Who requested libsyncml error codes?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:01:26] <Tuju>     bellmich: do we have a page for syncml error codes? do we need such?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:01:30] <dgollub>  it's more or less a AI for all developers (frontends and plugins and core developers) to request stuff you think have to be documentend in the whitepaper to start hacking OpenSync
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:01:33] <Tuju>     lot of users keep asking about those.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:01:35] <bricks>   doesn't a ticket for whitepaper exists?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:01:56] <Tuju>     bricks: i'll check that.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:01:56] <dgollub>  bricks: maybe - but does it contain detailed request what should be in the whitepaper?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:01:58] <bellmich> The problem is that libsyncml has no error codes like 0x50 or 0x44.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:02:09] <bricks>   dgollub: don't thinks so
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:02:29] <Tuju>     bellmich: problem is that those generate questions/traffic as they are too cryptic
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:02:37] <bellmich> Tuju: These error codes are from openobex and the error messages from OpenOBEX are not really helpful.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:02:52] <Tuju>     can't we anyhow give a hint about that in output?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:03:07] <fm>       have to go
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:03:21] <bellmich> Tuju: The error messages "There is a bluetooth problem." is the best what we can get.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:03:23] <Tuju>     or are the error codes non-overlappping so that we could make table for meaning and where it came from?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:03:24] <Tuju>     fm ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:03:38] <Tuju>     bellmich: that would be a start.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:03:49] <Tuju>     and would probably drop part of the questions.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:03:54] <bellmich> No, sometimes a device crashs later and sometimes it crashs earlier.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:03:56] <teprrr>   bellmich, Tuju, about syncml error codes.. it'd be nice to have a list in wiki, perhaps linked to possible solutions/why it happens
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:04:09] <teprrr>   last time I got some errors I had to crawl through the syncml headers myself :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:04:10] <dgollub>  i guess the request is more about "high-level error messages" - right?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:04:24] <bellmich> Example: Nokia S40 crashs on wrong DevInf after the alerts were received.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:04:47] <bellmich> Example: BUT the DevInf was known after the SAN was received.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:05:02] <dgollub>  i would postpone this - high-level error messages is very tough story ... especailly when it comes to i18n
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:05:06] <bellmich> Example: SE crashs after SAN.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:05:19] <Tuju>     is this something that we could escalate to the upstream where it actually belongs?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:05:25] <Tuju>     are they responsive?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:05:41] <dgollub>  Tuju: do you talk about openpobex project?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:05:45] <Tuju>     we're not talking about wbxml here now.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:05:49] <Tuju>     dgollub: yes
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:06:07] <dgollub>  they mapped the obex error codes to the specification description...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:06:31] <dgollub>  in my opionen it's not worth to map obex errors to a higher-level error message
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:06:32] <Tuju>     well - we still have a problem even they might have done it right :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:06:43] <bellmich> Nevertheless I can create a ticket to check for code parts which only display an error code.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:06:58] <dgollub>  their are varous cases were the obex error code is wrong anyway - 0x44 for wrong authentication...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:07:00] <Tuju>     bellmich: that would be a start, good start.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:07:28] <Tuju>     for 99% of people the number or just being quiet is as helpful.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:07:42] <dgollub>  the low-level error codes are only useful for developers - which have access to the specs anyway...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:07:52] <Tuju>     bellmich has AI for this.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:07:55] <Tuju>     let's proceed
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:08:03] <Tuju>     status page
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:08:12] <Tuju>      - create general status page about versions, what plugins are ported etc -
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:08:12] <Tuju>        for users.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:08:22] <Tuju>     http://www.opensync.org/wiki/status i started this today
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:08:24] <Tuju>     comments?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:08:44] <Tuju>     we have a *lot* of discussion about this in users-list
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:09:03] <azeem>    status maybe should have version tag
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:09:20] <Tuju>     and i've a feeling that due the userfriendliness of sf.net list archives, people don't read them and this keeps popping up constantly.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:09:39] <teprrr>   dgollub, low-level error codes are useful when one tries to debug a problem
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:09:40] <Tuju>     azeem: you mean that ready stuff would be tagged in svn?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:09:43] <teprrr>   by googling around etc.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:09:53] <dgollub>  teprrr: users don't debug - developers debug...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:10:02] <azeem>    Tuju: I mean "status" is unclear, cause the wiki page might be out of date
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:10:10] <teprrr>   sure the error could mention "got error message from openbox: <msg>"
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:10:19] <azeem>    so have a column for each version, 0.37, 0.38 maybe
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:10:21] <teprrr>   dgollub, well, I'm a user and I do debug sometimes :P
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:10:25] <dgollub>  teprrr: we have this already today...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:10:35] <teprrr>   mm, okay
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:10:40] <Tuju>     azeem: sure, but i rather check the page and give a link than post the same answer n times.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:11:07] <azeem>    sure
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:11:18] <Tuju>     and we tried to share the maintainership for each component -> one task was to take care all communication and tickets
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:11:22] <teprrr>   just wanted to mention that it makes it harder to make things harder to fix for more advanced users.. surely no low-level errors should be shown to user directly, but they should be available nevertheless
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:11:33] <Tuju>     that would fall to maintainer to update that page.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:11:37] <dgollub>  i would just add a version column and report the status of the latest version...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:11:45] <Tuju>     dgollub: ack, noted.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:11:49] <Tuju>     i'll add it
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:12:08] <Tuju>     so people can make conclusions is that up to date
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:12:49] <Tuju>     does anyone oppose such status page? does it create yet another outdated page? :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:13:02] <azeem>    on this topic, I'd like to suggest making point releases in order to port plugins to the current API, like 0.38.1 which adds evo2-sync
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:13:16] <azeem>    so that plugins can catch up, maybe
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:13:38] <azeem>    Tuju: as long as it is clear which version the status pertains to, I think it's very useful
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:13:46] <Tuju>     ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:14:07] <Tuju>     what others think about these point releases?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:14:34] <Tuju>     i guess we trid to do rel/month back then but it didn't really work due lack of manpower or something.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:15:12] <Tuju>     evolution and kdepim plugins has a problem that they don't have a maintainer :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:15:23] <Tuju>     okay
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:15:27] <Tuju>      - make a guide what is mandatory info when posting to the mailing list
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:15:27] <Tuju>        (versions, what plugins, what configs etc)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:15:28] <azeem>    hopefully, 0.3x is pretty API-stable, but it would still be good to have bug-fixing/porting point releases which do not change API and only change API for 0.39 again
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:16:39] <Tuju>     what about that small guide? lot of people keep leaving the crucial info out of those help mails
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:16:48] <Tuju>     i can make it and lets see if it works.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:16:57] <Tuju>     let's link it to the first page
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:17:17] <Tuju>     AI tuju make ask-a-question-with-info-page
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:17:25] <Tuju>     3. Lack of manpower
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:17:25] <Tuju>      - http://opensync.org/wiki/OpenSyncHackers
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:17:25] <Tuju>      - core plugins and core engine area maintainers are missing (some in action).
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:17:37] <Tuju>     comments? ideas how to solve this?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:18:44] <dgollub>  more freq. stable releases
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:18:55] <dgollub>  no development branches ...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:18:59] <Tuju>     i've asked one american distro maker to look into this project without luck.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:19:00] <dgollub>  API documentation
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:19:07] <Tuju>     yep
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:19:24] <Tuju>     i think the stable releases is the key point here.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:19:28] <dgollub>  there are rumors that some nuernberg distro maker hired a new person
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:19:35] <Tuju>     dgollub: ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:19:45] <azeem>    some of the talks from the meeting are pretty good I think, and could be linked more prominently from the homepage
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:19:56] <azeem>    as starting points for new developers
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:20:08] <Tuju>     azeem: good idea
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:20:49] <Tuju>     we could proceed if anyone else has ideas for this problemo.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:21:01] <Tuju>     4. Repriorities tasks/bugs for 0.40
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:21:01] <Tuju>      - "what (features/tickets) could be postponed after 0.40?" (postponed last time)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:21:01] <Tuju>      - what are high priority bugs / blocking other's work? -> AI priorization.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:21:18] <Tuju>     this is my worry, i cannot test anymore due couple bugs. :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:22:00] <Tuju>     dgollub: do you have anything you could hand over to others so that you could spend your time with those showstoppers?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:22:24] <Tuju>     the short time you've now close future?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:22:36] <dgollub>  how to identify those "showstoppers"?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:22:39] <Tuju>     others too, good ideas are welcome :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:23:14] <dgollub>  could you make sure that my ticket query has the right priority - so i would work through one by one
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:23:18] <Tuju>     i tried to set the flags in trac, but frankly some vformat stuff were something that i could not say how important were they.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:23:46] <dgollub>  http://opensync.org/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=0.39&owner=~dgollub&order=priority
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:23:48] <Tuju>     dgollub: i could and i can also email them to you as list too.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:24:14] <dgollub>  "Fake conflict"  is on rang #3
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:24:16] <Tuju>     882 and 883 stopped me last.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:25:14] <dgollub>  ok now there are at #1 and #2
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:25:38] <Tuju>     yep
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:25:46] <Tuju>     does others have similar worries?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:26:06] <Tuju>     from trunk especially.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:26:21] <dgollub>  which others do you mean?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:26:32] <Tuju>     people here in channel :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:26:36] <dgollub>  i see
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:26:43] <bricks>   have to leave in some mins
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:26:49] <Tuju>     'do others' would have been proper english :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:26:56] <Tuju>     bricks: ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:26:59] <dgollub>  then lets do next item..
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:10] <Tuju>     5. Automated packaging from trunk
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:10] <Tuju>      - what people think about this overall? pros/cons?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:10] <Tuju>      - users would welcome it (private mail comments)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:10] <Tuju>      - we would gain more testing+bug reports once we close to 0.40
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:10] <Tuju>      - which distros shoul/can be supported?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:10] <Tuju>      - who would create required tools?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:10] <Tuju>      - where the repositories would reside? opensync.org? only DNS records and elsewhere?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:16] <dgollub>  postpone for next meeting...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:19] <Tuju>     ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:27] <Tuju>     6. Testing
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:27] <Tuju>      - page about who-has-access-to-what-device has been discussed
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:27] <Tuju>      - should we have test guide/script for real-life testing? Steps+result reports?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:27:42] <dgollub>  any volunteers for #2 bullet?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:28:02] <Tuju>     i could draft it within week or bit more.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:28:12] <Tuju>     if nobody else want it
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:28:28] <dgollub>  a initial draft to -devel would help - so everyone can add comments
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:28:29] <Tuju>     and someone could help me with the items to be tested, bellmich especially.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:28:46] <Tuju>     AI tuju draft a test steps
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:28:52] <dgollub>  next?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:29:03] <Tuju>     7. Frontends
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:29:03] <Tuju>      - should we block 0.40 until frontends are ready? (postponed last time)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:29:03] <Tuju>      - status of gnome-sync?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:29:07] <bellmich> STOP
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:29:16]     * Tuju pulls handbreak
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:29:17] <dgollub>  wasup?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:29:42] <bellmich> Tuju: Perhaps it is a good idea to put the readme from the mobiles test to the wiki too?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:30:03] <dgollub>  it's hard to maintain
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:30:03] <Tuju>     bellmich: mmmm....which readme?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:30:06] <bellmich> Actually only the developers noticed how to create usable tests for supported devices.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:30:13] <Tuju>     you mean this doc we discussed?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:30:29] <dgollub>  iirc there is a trac extension to display content from the SVN-repo in the wiki
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:30:32] <bellmich> tests/mobiles/README
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:30:57] <Tuju>     yes, i thought that this could be a good guide for people with different devices + will to help - but don't really know how.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:30:59] <dgollub>  can we display 1:1 this readme in the wiki?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:31:09] <dgollub>  so i would just install tthis extension
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:31:11] <Tuju>     we can link it as =raw 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:31:20] <bellmich> It needs some polish for normal users but generally yes.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:31:20] <Tuju>     i've done it already for other README files
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:31:32] <dgollub>  Tuju: it's more like a iframe of the content...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:31:47] <Tuju>     gdiepen: ack, but anything would work imo.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:31:53] <Tuju>     doesn't have to be pretty.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:31:55] <dgollub>  or not a iframe... but there is some extesntion which renders the wiki page with the content of file in the SVN repo
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:05] <Tuju>     content is what matters.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:19] <dgollub>  AI dgollub: install trac-repo-content extension
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:25] <Tuju>     ack, ahead
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:28] <Tuju>     7. Frontends
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:28] <Tuju>      - should we block 0.40 until frontends are ready? (postponed last time)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:28] <Tuju>      - status of gnome-sync?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:36] <dgollub>  any frontend developers around?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:49] <dgollub>  henrik? halton? tokoe? or anyone else?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:32:52] <Tuju>     vkrause: ping 
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:33:09] <vkrause>  Tuju: pong
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:33:17] <bricks>   i am thinking about a mozilla bases ap
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:33:25] <Tuju>     have you been involved to the gui side recently or akonadi only?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:33:27] <bellmich> I would recommend to not wait for the frontends.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:33:51] <Tuju>     bellmich: i agree, i would be perfectly happy with osynctool cli
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:33:58] <vkrause>  Tuju: gui as in kitchensync? no, that's mainly tokoe's work
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:00] <bellmich> libsyncml shows that it is better to publish a 0.5.0 and then to publish a 0.5.1 shortly before or after the release of the layer above.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:06] <Tuju>     vkrause: ack
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:18] <bricks>   Tuju: did you try my patch for renaming msyntool?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:25] <teprrr>   working on a gui requires a stable API for 3rd party devels
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:26] <azeem>    the question is how 0.40 will be marketed
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:36] <azeem>    if it's targetted at users, frontends should be available
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:36] <Tuju>     bricks: no, and i hate myself for that. just lack of time.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:38] <dgollub>  ok then i would postpone for the next meeting - how to communicate that 0.40 will not be shipped with any GUI...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:47] <azeem>    if it's just targeted as API-stable/for developers, they don't
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:47] <Tuju>     bricks: i'll try it, don't worry.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:48] <bricks>   Tuju; no problem
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:34:55] <teprrr>   could there be a devel release, with stable API and some time to work on the frontends?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:05] <teprrr>   azeem, yup, sounds about right
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:06] <dgollub>  teprrr: 0.3x are all devel releases
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:14] <bricks>   have to leave
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:16] <bricks>   cu
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:23] <azeem>    0.39.x could be an API-Release-Candidate series
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:35] <Tuju>     btw, the 0.41 milestone has renaming stuff that will break packaging ---> i put the packaging ban lift there.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:37] <azeem>    but really, frontends should catch up *now*, not after 0.40, if possibe
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:51] <azeem>    Tuju: what kind of renaming?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:54] <dgollub>  azeem: i don't think we need 0.39.X
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:35:56] <Tuju>     unless those tickets are moved to 0.40
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:36:02] <Tuju>     azeem: plugins and cli tool
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:36:07] <dgollub>  just package up svn revision
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:36:12] <teprrr>   dgollub, with stable api? yes they are, but for example ubuntu/debian does not package 0.3x series at all, which makes it harder for 3rd party devels to develop on them
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:36:24] <azeem>    dgollub: I won't package svn snapshots without API guarantees
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:36:27] <dgollub>  otherwise we would end up with 0.39.9999 in 5 years
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:36:29] <teprrr>   plus that 0.3x requires stuff you can't get from the repositories easily
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:36:41] <dgollub>  azeem: don't you package 0.38?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:36:49] <azeem>    that's not a svn snapshot
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:37:10] <teprrr>   but yes, waiting forever with the release isn't gonna work either..
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:37:23] <Tuju>     hey, everyone - i don't see any problem using kde stuff (addressbook, korg) with directory resource - does someone else?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:37:28] <dgollub>  azeem: whats the different? the code quality is the same.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:37:37] <azeem>    dgollub: the API might have been changed
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:37:41] <azeem>    somewhere in svn trunk
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:37:55] <dgollub>  azeem: i guarantee that the API will change until 0.40 ;)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:38:18] <azeem>    that's fine
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:38:25] <azeem>    as long as it is changed at very public, defined points
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:38:28] <azeem>    like the 0.39 release
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:38:57] <bellmich> dgollub: API changes are only sanitized by SO naming if a release happens.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:39:09] <dgollub>  you know all this stable API thing is slow down the entire process .. since we are scared to chnange anything or release stuff we might change/revert in some point later.. thats the main reason why 0.3x got declared als developer branch
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:39:37] <azeem>    dgollub: OTOH, we have no frontends and almost no plugins currently
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:39:46] <azeem>    because the API changed faster than people could adopt
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:39:53] <teprrr>   not having a stable API causes delays in adoption
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:40:03] <Tuju>     azeem: but then again, i can sync my KDE and phone, which is all needed for starters.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:40:17] <dgollub>  not being allowed to change the API fast slows down the development
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:40:34] <azeem>    dgollub: are you saying a stable API is nowhere in sight?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:40:38] <Tuju>     dgollub: are you talking now pre 0.40 or post 0.40 ?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:40:51] <azeem>    I was under the impression the 0.40 API was almost finalized
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:00] <Tuju>     azeem: there is too much of it.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:08] <azeem>    too much of what?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:11] <Tuju>     api
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:14] <azeem>    ok
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:23] <Tuju>     it needs to be narrowed down.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:27] <Tuju>     to the esstential.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:34] <azeem>    but will plugins need to be changed for that?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:37] <Tuju>     nope
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:39] <dgollub>  i'm talking about pre 0.40 - after 0.40 we will have a lot of mini releases... nearly with every major bugfix - and of course with any API addition
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:51] <Tuju>     dgollub: exactly.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:41:54] <azeem>    Tuju: then it's not a concern
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:02] <Tuju>     and we branch every release and keep trunk open
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:29] <Tuju>     and all found bugs are fixed into a) trunk b) to braches where it applies
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:37] <azeem>    Tuju: after 0.40?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:37] <dgollub>  i always gave some introduction when doing major API changes - like hashtable redesign or introducing main sinks
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:40]     * bellmich Leaving in 5 minutes.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:44] <Tuju>     which should not be nothign new.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:47] <dgollub>  or did even the adoption of all  plugins in SVN by my own...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:59] <Tuju>     azeem: yes
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:42:59] <dgollub>  starting with 0.39.x is just a waste of time
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:43:17] <Tuju>     azeem: the api *will* change due this narrow down before 0.40.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:43:21] <dgollub>  which topic?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:43:30] <dgollub>  are we already at 8?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:43:46] <Tuju>     dgollub: somehow we faded into it :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:43:55] <Tuju>     let's close the 7.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:43:58] <dgollub>   - capabilities-discovery-syncml, depends on OMA DM/libsyncml-0.60 schedule
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:03] <Tuju>     ANYONE - about gnome-sync ?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:07] <azeem>    dgollub: so what if it turns out there needs to be anohter 0.3x after 0.39?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:17] <Tuju>     it sounds very dead at the moment.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:28] <dgollub>  azeem: long slip of 0.40
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:32] <Tuju>     8. OpenSync 0.40 Roadmap
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:32] <Tuju>      - roadmap adjustments rescheduled for next week (postponed last time)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:32] <Tuju>      - schedule estimates needed/would be nice (requires personal time commitments)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:32] <Tuju>      - shrinking and freezing API (comments from kitchensync required, not invited yet?)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:32] <Tuju>      - capabilities-discovery-syncml, depends on OMA DM/libsyncml-0.60 schedule
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:44] <azeem>    I was wondering about what it's going to be called, mainly
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:44:56] <dgollub>  regarding last bullet - i don't want to ship 0.40 without full discovery support of syncml
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:45:22] <dgollub>  #1 syncml is the most used plugin or highly requested device plugin
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:45:35] <dgollub>  #2 without this support we're facing duplicated/dataloss
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:45:57] <dgollub>  #3 dataloss and duplicates will not meet the 0.40 users-expections
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:46:10] <Tuju>     bellmich still here?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:46:22] <bellmich> Yes, I'm closing all apps right now.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:46:38] <bellmich> libsyncml 0.6.0 cannot speed up.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:46:41] <Tuju>     short comment - can you finish the DM support before 0.40?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:46:42] <dgollub>  i don't want to schedule a 0.40 date - it would be nice this year - but without the last bullet i really hesitate to do 0.40 - it's not worth the pain...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:47:27] <Tuju>     bellmich: what was the estimate for 0.6.0 ?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:47:31] <dgollub>  and i'm fine with waiting for 0.6.0 for few more weeks/month
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:47:37] <bellmich> I will start with OMA DM after 0.5.1 release. I have no idea how easy it is.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:47:50] <bellmich> DevInf sounds simple.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:48:08] <Tuju>     what kind of API issues we face if we get the needed this year and improve it later?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:48:10] <bellmich> The roadmap says June 2009. This is very conservative.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:48:14] <Tuju>     post 0.40 ?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:48:34] <dgollub>  bellmich: could you write a list what needs to be done to get the minium-required stuff to have full discovery & capabilities supported in the syncml plugin?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:48:43] <Tuju>     what kind of API issues we face if we get the needed this year and improve it later, post opensync-0.40 release?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:48:44] <bellmich> Tuju: I don't want to publish a fast and dirty release.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:49:21] <Tuju>     bellmich: ack, i understand that fully.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:49:44] <bellmich> The list will be short. I will publish it in the milestone.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:50:07] <dgollub>  bellmich: could you also mentinonen req. for the opensync framework and the syncml plugin?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:50:45] <Tuju>     okay, shall we put the estimated release date for 0.40 - say end of January 2009 ?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:04] <Tuju>     or leave it open?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:09] <dgollub>  Tuju: can we unset the date?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:14] <dgollub>  yeeah leave it open...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:15] <Tuju>     i'm not sure.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:22] <bellmich> Very optimistic but hey we need goals to perform well ;)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:24] <Tuju>     it's database.... :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:24] <Vollstrecker>     Hi, I just got managed to sync my Nokia 9500 over usb, and wanted to report it to the compat-list. How do I do that?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:37]     * bellmich Leaving.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:40] <azeem>    Vollstrecker: there's meeting going on, please wait
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:44] <azeem>    see /topic
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:48] <Tuju>     bellmich: i've started spending time here way much more, just for 0.40.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:51:57] <Tuju>     i want to see it happen.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:52:22] <Tuju>     okay, bellmich is leaving and that was the last item
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:52:35] <dgollub>  i also like to see it happen - but in the same time it do want to meet the way to high user expereince
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:52:44] <Tuju>     let's leave it open and put some text about this to the roadmap so people can estimate themselves.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:53:08] <dgollub>  if we just relase a 0.40 which has no GUIs nor discovery&capabilities working plugins and only causes duplicates - the project will not see anyhting like 1.0
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:53:10] <Tuju>     dgollub: yep, doing it right is the only way or then it's not the 0.40 we've been talking about.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:53:43] <dgollub>  i'm fine with not releasing any GUI in parallel - as long msynctool and the plugins we plan to focus on are workign rock&solid once they're configured
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:53:56] <Tuju>     yep, i'd be very happy with that too.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:54:17] <Tuju>     dgollub: please elaborate the reasons why lack of discovery would create tons of duplicates?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:54:33] <dgollub>  no discovery means - no capabilities
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:54:43] <Tuju>     but those can be hand-configured, right?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:54:49] <dgollub>  no capabilities means duplicates on a slow-sync
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:54:57] <dgollub>  yes - they can be hand-configured
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:55:07] <dgollub>  if you configure them wrong -> dataloss and/or duplicates
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:55:25] <Tuju>     but there is a possibility to get them right and everything works?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:55:44] <dgollub>  and i gurantee that i will have to delete lots of mails about people complaining that we don't have hal support in the plugins which could do all that on the fly...
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:04] <Tuju>     yep :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:29] <Tuju>     right - does anyone have anything for the meeting log or shall we call it done?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:35] <dgollub>  yes - sure - but the averrage user don't care about this and will complain about the bad configuration expereince
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:43] <dgollub>  last item
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:48] <dgollub>  the most important
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:52] <Tuju>     heh :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:52] <Tuju>     yes
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:58] <Tuju>     9. IRC Meetings
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:56:58] <Tuju>      - who will write next minutes? who will be backup?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:13] <dgollub>  i can write the next mintues since i was late to day - kind of penalty
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:25]     * Tuju removes the line from irc client
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:29] <Tuju>     yes, indeed. :)
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:36] <Tuju>     i can backup you.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:40] <dgollub>  kk
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:42] <Tuju>     no comments.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:46] <Tuju>     meeting is closed.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:51] <dgollub>  so next week is again in the morning
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:57:56] <Tuju>     yep
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:58:01] <dgollub>  is fm still around?
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:58:10] <Tuju>     i think he left
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:58:37] Topic      You set the channel topic to "“http://opensync.org/ 0.38 | http://libsyncml.opensync.org/ 0.5.0 | http://opensync.org/wiki/FAQ | http://opensync.org/roadmap | http://libsyncml.opensync.org/roadmap | http://pastebin.com/ | OpenOBEX 1.4 @ http://www.bluez.org/openobex/”".
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:58:38] <dgollub>  maybe you can add a note to the minutes - how else has timing pproblems with meeting at this time
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:58:44] <dgollub>  -how +who
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:59:10] <Tuju>     i actually was here, but got confused.
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:59:14] <dgollub>  and please next time if the minutes write is not there but the backup - just start
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:59:32] <Tuju>     yep, we were actually starting at the same time you arrived
[Thu Nov 20 2008] [17:59:36] <dgollub>  if even the backup and the main guy not here - role the dice and just start