meetings/irc: opensync-20081113.log

[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:45:51] Topic      dgollub sets the channel topic to "09:00:00Z-10:00:00Z OpenSync Project IRC Meeting | No support/bugfixing during this time".
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:46:15] <dgollub>  (maybe we should keep the 2nd part for later as well :P)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:55:11] <dgollub>  i hope we don't need the moderation and +v stuff .. i have no idea how this works
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:55:36] <Tuju>     okay, kdepim plugin mail sent
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:55:52] <Tuju>     i miss fbert and his commits..... :-/
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:56:09] <dgollub>  Should we file the attendes in the minutes?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:56:16] <Tuju>     dgollub: sure
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:56:51] <dgollub>  (if someone don't want to be in the attendees list just don't say "present"? in the #1 section - sounds rseasonable?)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:57:23] <dgollub>  ok - my phone and computer time is out of sync - my phone says it's 09:00UTC - the computer still has 2 minutes to go
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:57:38] <Tuju>     mine is xx:57
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:58:08] <fm>       2008 Nov 13 09:59:31.000502
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:58:15] <dgollub>  But lets start with the "how is present" thing? maybe everyone just type "present" .. thats easy to grep in irc logs
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:58:19] <dgollub>  present
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:58:26] <Tuju>     present
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:58:39] <ChrisH>   present
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:58:41] <bricks>   present
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:59:03] <fm>       present
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:59:43] <dgollub>  ok - cool. the hard core is present ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [10:59:53] <dgollub>  Topic 1: Hello! (placeholder for Action Items from previous Meetings)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:00:15] <dgollub>  this time we don't need this - so we just skip this - for further meetings we will use this ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:00:37] <dgollub>  .. for AI (action itmes). i plan to collect/assign AI to various people - and we will review them next time
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:00:44] <dgollub>  everyone ok with this?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:00:50] <Tuju>     yep
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:00:55] <bricks>   yes
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:01:04] <fm>       yes. btw is bellmich expected to be not here?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:01:22] <Tuju>     i send a sms to him
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:01:25] <dgollub>  maybe he joins later - we'll see
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:01:33] <fm>       ok, thanks
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:01:47] <dgollub>  ok - next topic
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:01:49] <dgollub>  Topic 2: OpenSync Ticket/Bug Policy
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:01:58] <dgollub>  we have now this: http://opensync.org/wiki/BugManagement
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:02:11] <dgollub>  i hope some of you looked at that already ... i just read this the first time this week
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:02:30] <Tuju>     sent
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:02:38] <bricks>   saw this page the first time yesterday
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:02:57] <bricks>   ist nice but we should made some tables
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:06] <Tuju>     sorry about that, i wrote it back then but didn't advertise it properly i guess.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:09] <dgollub>  we should make sure everyone agrees with that so we can just declare this as our bug policy
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:16] <bricks>   ok
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:23]     * ChrisH saw it first yesterday. But I support such a policy
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:25] <Tuju>     bricks i can change it to table, some can mark that as an AP for me.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:33] <bricks>   "If no comment is  received in 30 days, bug will be closed" <- ack
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:41] <bricks>   Tuju: great
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:42] <dgollub>  maybe someone can sent this out to the -devel list and ask for changes? thats most visible we can do...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:50] <dgollub>  and put this on the trac bug form next week?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:03:51] <fm>       I think it is good, to close bugs after 30 days to keep the tracker clean, as nearly none of the old bugs are responsive anymore
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:01] <ChrisH>   It should be visible and acked on the bug report page
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:01] <dgollub>  yeah - thats true
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:13] <bricks>   bye the way do we accept tickets for 0.22?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:26] <dgollub>  ChrisH: even "acked"? you mean "i confirm with bug policy xyz"? ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:42] <fm>       ;) bricks i usually tell the reporter to upgrade as the chances to get a fix for 0.2 are limited ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:48] <bricks>   if not we should add a comment to this page
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:54] <ChrisH>   yes, a checkbox like, I read the bug policy
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:56] <bricks>   fm: :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:04:57] <dgollub>  bricks: i would say we just check if they still persit for 0.3x or 0.40 - if not - wontfix and ask to update
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:05:05] <Tuju>     http://opensync.org/wiki/docs/trunk we have a chapter in docs for submitting bugs, i'll add that page there.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:05:43] <ChrisH>   Or add a sentence like: Please read http://opensync.org/wiki/docs/trunk/XYZ for bug policy and needed information for a bug report
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:05:47] <bricks>   the problem with 0.22 is that most bugs are caused by syncml
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:06:01] <bricks>   and these are mostly fixed in trunk
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:06:57] <fm>       dgollub: bricks as far as i remember bellmich said syncml 0.47 should be compatible with 0.2x didn't he?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:07:20] <dgollub>  maybe we should postpone this for next time when michael is present?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:07:39] <fm>       dgollub: yes ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:07:41] <dgollub>  and just make AI for him - i'm sure he'll read the meeting mintues
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:08:17] <bricks>   dgollub: ack
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:08:39] <dgollub>  so whats the actually AI - special bug policy for 0.22 bug policy?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:08:50] <dgollub>  or is it about libsyncml bug policy?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:09:22] Away       You are now marked as being away.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:09:23] <fm>       0.22 I guess
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:09:32] <bricks>   special bug policy for 0.22
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:09:37] <dgollub>  in general i would say that with release of 0.40 we just try to verify that reported bugs in 0.22 exist in 0.40 or not - if not WONTFIX
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:09:38] <ChrisH>   From my point of view the policy should be the same. A bug were the reporter does not respond is pretty useless
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:11:54] <dgollub>  ChrisH: in general - no activiy after 30days -> closed ... is there a resolution for trac for such bugs - e.g. "Later"?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:12:06] <dgollub>  or what was document in BugManagemnt? wontfix?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:12:29] <dgollub>  or should we really tag them as "fixed"?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:12:34] <ChrisH>   Other bug tools I know use: unresolved
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:12:56] <dgollub>  maybe we should make this clear in the BugManagemnt guide?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:13:16] <fm>       trac allows to define all resolutions one wants to have ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:13:27] <bricks>   dgollub: wontfix is ok but unresolved is much better
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:14:02] <fm>       i can add an unresolved and close all bugs older 30 days with unresolved ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:14:04] <dgollub>  right now trac povides per default: fixed / invalid / worksforme / duplicate / wontfix
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:14:22] <dgollub>  fm: yeah - a custom "resolved" type
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:15:05] <ChrisH>   unresolved will allow the reporter to open it later, if it is still visible with a more current version.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:15:11] Away       You are now marked as being away.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:15:14] <fm>       but there is one problem, there are tons of reports that are older than 30 days an nobody ever looked at them ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:15:27] <dgollub>  fm: true
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:15:32] <fm>       like http://opensync.org/ticket/780
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:15:39] <dgollub>  fm: my suggesstion would be in such case - ping the default assignee
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:15:44] <fm>       it even has a patch attached ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:16:05] <dgollub>  hahah thats mine :(
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:16:06] Away       You are no longer marked as being away.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:16:14] <bricks>   :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:16:16] <Tuju>     bellmich said is busy atm.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:16:16] <dgollub>  adnv very likely obsolate...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:17:55] <dgollub>  oh this was milestone 0.42 thats why i missed it
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:17:59] <dgollub>  ok my bad
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:18:26] <fm>       ok, it seems to be fixed ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:18:26] <dgollub>  ok lets do this:
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:18:58] <dgollub>  if someone of the developers looked into the bug and requested info - and  there is no reply within 30 days -> "unresolved"
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:19:09] <bricks>   or "obsolete" ?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:19:21] <ChrisH>   incomplete
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:19:27] <bricks>   :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:19:38] <Tuju>     unresolved sounds like it is.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:19:55] <Tuju>     it has been reported + studied but it did not lead to anything.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:20:07] <bricks>   ok ack
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:20:14] <Tuju>     it doesn't imply to any result of that process.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:20:25] <dgollub>  if the bug is open - and the default assignee didn't responed in 30 days - we put all those bugs in a collect-bug-list to -devel and ask for volunteers? (it's a king of global-ping for everyone)?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:20:49] <Tuju>     dgollub: i think it's the maintainers task
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:20:49] <dgollub>  so kind of monthly-reminder which bugs are open for 30days and nobody responded?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:20:50] <bricks>   dgollub: great
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:21:05] <ChrisH>   ACK
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:21:08] <dgollub>  Tuju: but if the bug just slips through - just like this one? i didn't looked at 0.42 milestone
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:21:25] <Tuju>     dgollub: can we have default assignees for all components?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:21:30] <bricks>   me too and of course not at bugs which haven't a version
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:21:43] <dgollub>  is this very time-wasting task to collect all 30days-no-developer-response?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:22:02] <dgollub>  Tuju: i guess we have this already
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:22:03] <fm>       dgollub: could you symlink the sqlite trac database to public so one can do these queries? I think the webfrontend does not allow such things
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:22:18] <Tuju>     imo we could try to keep the 0.2x with low activity before 0.40 anyway
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:22:30] <dgollub>  fm: good idea - lets discuss this later
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:22:53] <dgollub>  AI dgollub: provide readonly direct database access of tickets someway public
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:23:29] <ChrisH>   What about: Assign all new bug to a REVIEWER (not neccesary a programmer). This reviewer takes care of 1. bug report is complte 2. the reporter is reachable by mail  3. assigns a bug to "backend"
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:23:37] <dgollub>  AI bellmich: define bug policy for libsyncml - what to do with bugs using old version of libsyncml?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:23:51] <ChrisH>   I hope such a reviewer can be found on the user or devel list. As said, not a programmer needed
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:24:12] <dgollub>  ChrisH: i guess tuju and fm do this already kind of - and screen all bugs...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:24:23] <fm>       ChrisH: that is what I try to do i do formatting an reassigning of tickets usually twice a week
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:24:41] <dgollub>  and they do this already quite well... i guess the read-only ticket database access could make their life a lot easier since they can run indivial SQl quire
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:25:11] <dgollub>  anything open for this topic? (time is running)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:25:39] <Tuju>     should we add role/skills to hackers page? i personally don't know/remember who can hack c and who can do other kind of stuff.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:02] <dgollub>  Tuju: no - it's outdating very fast i guess
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:15] <Tuju>     dgollub: ack, yep
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:27] <dgollub>  to hard to maintain...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:29] <dgollub>  next topic?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:31]     * Tuju plans to learn c fast....
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:50] <dgollub>  Topic 3: Repriorities tasks/bugs for 0.40
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:54]     * ChrisH has a good book on learning C but its in german
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:56] <dgollub>   - (discussion what and how)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:26:58] <dgollub>   - (no talk about specific bugs/tickets)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:27:12] <dgollub>   - what needs to get in 0.39?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:27:12] <dgollub>   - what could be postponed after 0.40?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:27:12] <dgollub>   - whats the role/priority of plugins this week?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:27:17] <dgollub>   - any hotspots in core components?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:27:50] <bricks>   hotspot: vformat
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:27:50] <Tuju>     should we put high priority to bugs that block testing?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:27:51] <dgollub>  my suggestion would be - no new core features for 0.39
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:27:57] <dgollub>  Tuju: yes
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:28:03] <bricks>   dgollub: ack
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:28:24] <fm>       I do not know whether syncml syncing works for anybody right now. But it has not worked for the last 5 months for me. I think it would be great if our phones work at least kind of when releasing...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:28:31] <dgollub>  yeah vformat is an issue - we need more testing for this as well
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:28:35] <ChrisH>   add kdepimplugin to 0.39 as this increases the number of real-life tester, incl. me!
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:28:49] <dgollub>  fm: libsyncml or syncml plugin or opensync itself?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:29:07] <bricks>   hotspot: kde-pim and akonadi
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:29:07] <Tuju>     i have two currently that block testing: http://opensync.org/ticket/882 and http://opensync.org/ticket/883
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:29:19] <dgollub>  ChrisH: we might discuss this in #6 (How to meet users expections with 0.40?)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:29:32] <dgollub>  Tuju: bump them in servertify and priority
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:29:53] <fm>       libsyncml stopped working via usb now it is just bluetooth. syncml-ds-tool works, but using msynctool I get segfaults all over libsyncml
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:29:54] <dgollub>  ok those are all hospots in missing plugins - but not in core compments
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:29:58] <bricks>   docu about plugin configs has to be up to date
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:30:18] <bricks>   most qeustions on maillinglist are about configs
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:30:18] <dgollub>  anyone want to docu plugin config?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:30:23] <Tuju>     dgollub: other problem is that imo there are less severe issues with the highest values for attention, should we lower them to get the proper listing in bug milestone?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:30:44] <dgollub>  Tuju: might make sense - yes
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:30:59] <fm>       dgollub: the not working usb might be caused by factory's change from libusb0 to libusb-compat see current factory thread by sbrabec and gregkh ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:31:26] <dgollub>   - whats the role/priority of plugins this week? <- the answer: high because of blocking real-life testing(?)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:31:44] <dgollub>  - any hotspots in core components? - anyone seeing hotspots inside opensync?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:31:50] <bricks>   ack. kde-pim is requestet most
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:33:11] <dgollub>  - what could be postponed after 0.40?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:33:30] <ChrisH>   I cannot detect any hotspot inside opensync core as I cannot do real life testing without kdepim plugin running.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:33:44] <fm>       yeah but I really think file <--> syncml is the base for most other thinks. and people probably want to see it working before they try to implement their own plugins
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:33:46] <dgollub>  i see - ok so we skip the "core component" thing .. i see the issue
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:34:17] <dgollub>  ok - lets define plugins to concentrate on in topic #6
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:34:46] <dgollub>  the conclusion for this topic: plugin plays this week pretty high prirotiy due to real-life-testing get blocked
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:35:02] <dgollub>  "- what could be postponed after 0.40?" - postponsed for next week
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:35:11] <bricks>   :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:35:42] <Tuju>     dgollub: i've started enuser docs in wiki http://opensync.org/wiki/docs others non-coders will help
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:35:43] <dgollub>  "- what needs to get in 0.39?" - critical plugin fixes defined in #6, testibg blocking stuff
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:35:55] <dgollub>  Tuju: thats topic #4
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:36:07] <dgollub>  ok i hope everyone is kind of happy wiht #3 - next topic ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:36:13] <dgollub>  Topic 4: Documentation/Whitepaper
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:36:18] <dgollub>  10:35 < Tuju> dgollub: i've started enuser docs in wiki http://opensync.org/wiki/docs others non-coders will help
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:36:21] <dgollub>  thanks a lot ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:36:57] <dgollub>  i really don't like this attribute of wikis - the outdate very fast if noboday takes care of - thanks Tuju for making them useable!
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:37:07] <Tuju>     [11:31] <bricks> ack. kde-pim is requestet most -- that can be workarounded with kde Directory resource
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:37:44] <Tuju>     dgollub: we need to make all docs that has anything detailed technical to version specific dir
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:37:57] <dgollub>  if anyone sees outdated stuff - mark them as outdated on top of the wiki page..
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:38:19] <Tuju>     and try to keep major versions so that they don't break the docs, like 0.2x, 0.4x -- what about after that?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:38:48] <dgollub>  not quite sure if we should put too much version specific information in the wiki? since it's outdating anyway by time...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:39:19] <ChrisH>   How to do that 'outdating'? I just had a look and could not find a button
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:39:23] <Tuju>     dgollub: we should have two kind of stuff, generic that is in toplevel and rest that contains release specific stuff
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:39:23] <dgollub>  and i wonder if we really need all those detailed _techinal_ docu - it's very hard to maintain to keep it current
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:39:52] <dgollub>  ChrisH: just put '''Outdated'''  on top of the wiki page or something like that.. we might should define here a policy as well..
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:02] <ChrisH>   dgollub: ACK
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:03] <dgollub>  Tuju: ok sounds good
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:11] <Tuju>     i plan to move the old technical stuff under the http://opensync.org/wiki/docs/0.2x
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:16] <bricks>   add = OUTDATED = to the page
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:18] <dgollub>  should we define a "wiki maintaince policy"?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:33] <Tuju>     briefly yes
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:37] <dgollub>  anyone interested in writing something about?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:44] <Tuju>     dgollub: i can do that
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:52] <Tuju>     i will post a draft to -devel list
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:40:54] <dgollub>  AI Tuju: wiki maintaince policy
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:00] <dgollub>  cool thanks!
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:06] <dgollub>   - to gain more developers we need proper API documention
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:06] <dgollub>   - what's the Doxygen coverage?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:07] <dgollub>   - volunteers to increase the quality of the Doxygen coverage?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:37] <dgollub>  i guess the doxygen API docu is still _very_ poor...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:50] <bricks>   dgollub: thinks so too
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:53] <Tuju>     do we have any example what it outputs?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:55] <dgollub>  http://api.kde.org/
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:41:58] <dgollub>  http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/2.18/
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:42:12] <dgollub>  this are "good" examples
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:42:13] <bricks>   dgollub: most of the time i had to ask you instead of reading non existing docu
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:42:19] <dgollub>  http://opensync.org/docs/
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:42:21] <dgollub>  less good...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:42:34] <Tuju>     that's nice.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:42:37] <dgollub>  yeah - thats bad and we need to fix it
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:42:42] <bricks>   bye the way the docu should be in the headers in my opinion
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:42:47] <bricks>   and not in the c files
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:43:01] <Tuju>     i add the doxygen url to wiki/docs page
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:43:08] <dgollub>  bricks: good idea.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:43:12] <dgollub>  any objections?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:43:50] <dgollub>  then lets define this for now for OpenSync core ... api docu inside the headers
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:44:00] <bricks>   dgollub: great
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:44:01] <dgollub>  since this is even available when you only have installed the opensync-devel package
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:44:13] <dgollub>  bricks: could you update the CODINGSTYLe file for this?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:44:30] <bricks>   yes.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:44:30] <ChrisH>   But http://opensync.org/docs/modules.html  looks quite OK to me.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:44:33] <dgollub>  just to state that we do documentation in the header...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:44:34] <fm>       dgollub: it seems http://opensync.org/docs/ is outdated looking at the revision, no way to have a cron job generate that?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:44:56] <dgollub>  fm: cron job is a good idea..
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:45:31] <dgollub>  AI dgollub: post-commit script or cron job to update doxygen docu on opensync.org server
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:45:36] <fm>       at least for libsyncml bellmich has improved the doc recently i think
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:45:57] <Tuju>     http://opensync.org/wiki/docs updated
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:46:22] <dgollub>  any voluenterrors to review the doxygen coverage? and ping the developers to improve their documentation?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:46:36] <dgollub>  but maybe we should first freeze the api
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:46:38] <ChrisH>   http://libsyncml.opensync.org/docs/ -> dated 2005; we also need these cronjob there
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:46:40] <dgollub>  and shrink it...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:46:44] <dgollub>  and then do the big doxygen-review
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:47:01] <dgollub>  and just start to document the public API .. later the private API
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:47:28] <dgollub>  since we run out of time - i put this topic to the next meeting
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:47:40] <dgollub>  postponing: Topic: 4 Documentation/Whitepaper
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:47:53] <dgollub>  Topic 5: Plugins for 0.40
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:48:01] <dgollub>  - we need to collect old 0.22 plugin configurations!
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:48:28] <dgollub>  could someone write an annoucnment to -users and -devel list to collect old users configuration?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:48:35] <dgollub>  we need those to test update from 0.22 to 0.40
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:48:54] <dgollub>  could someone take care of this? writing the announcment and collecting those'?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:49:11] <Tuju>     http://opensync.org/wiki/OpenSyncHackers added ldap plugin placeholder 
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:49:40] <dgollub>  maybe also contact the distro-packagers and ask them to provide configs of their distro-users or something like that....
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:49:43] <dgollub>  ... no one?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:49:47]     * ChrisH could try to collect users configs
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:50:10]     * Tuju do not really understand the 'collecting configs'
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:50:21] <Tuju>     does that mean .opensync/* stuff? :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:50:31] <dgollub>  only *.conf
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:50:34] <dgollub>  no databases
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:50:41] <Tuju>     so we can make converters?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:50:41] <dgollub>  just group and member configs
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:51:18] <dgollub>  yes - infrastrucutre is in place - it's called "OSyncUpdate" the only thing missing - a fixed pluginconfig schema - and the conversion stylesheet from old to new
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:51:20] <fm>       is this really supposed to be working? wouldn't it be better to improve the plugins than to be able to convert configs?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:51:56] <dgollub>  fm: sure - that has priority
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:52:00] <Tuju>     btw, i'd like to stress the 'enterprise' case here.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:52:07] <dgollub>  fm: but  in meanwhile i hope someone can cololect those...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:52:19] <dgollub>  whats the enterprise case?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:52:28] <Tuju>     in case you have NFS homes and multiple os releases you log in, you might need both, new and old configs 
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:52:44] <dgollub>  oh this thing - will not be supported for 0.22 nor 0.40 :/
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:52:46] <dgollub>  maybe later
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:52:46] <Tuju>     say that you change the work room/hosts and log in to old system
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:52:58] <fm>       ~/.opensync0.4 Tuju?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:03] <Tuju>     yep, i think we should consider to put the configs into version specific dirs
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:05] <Tuju>     in the future
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:12] <dgollub>  would not work
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:16] <dgollub>  because of anchor/hashtable ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:20] <bricks>   don't like that
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:26] <Tuju>     but all data should be version specific
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:28] <dgollub>  would cause a slow-sync everytime you switch the machine...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:45] <Tuju>     dgollub: no it would if you would have .opensync/0.2x/<everything>
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:49] <dgollub>  oh wait - it would do this always if you sync with a physical device
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:53:50] <Tuju>     dgollub: no it would if you would have .opensync/0.4x/<everything>
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:54:08] <Tuju>     this is a real case!
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:54:12] <bricks>   Tuju: that would be ok for me
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:54:14] <dgollub>  no - becauase of the anchor
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:54:20] <Tuju>     dgollub: what anchor?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:54:37] <dgollub>  most of the plugins work with anchor not with timestamps
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:54:38] <Tuju>     if you have site with 10k machines, you're not upgrading them in on month.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:54:53] <dgollub>  Tuju: lets discuss this later
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:55:05] <Tuju>     and users *will* log in with old and new machines frequently.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:55:12] <Tuju>     i'll make a ticket for it 
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:55:17] <dgollub>  Tuju: kk
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:55:29] <dgollub>  ChrisH: so you want to take this AI? i can give you more detailed info about this later...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:55:41] <ChrisH>   I see the issue, too. With NFS Homes this will happen. You login to differnt hosts, and maybe  OS and releases
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:55:47] <ChrisH>   I can take that AI
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:56:04] <dgollub>  AI ChrisH: collection 0.22 opensync member/group/plugin configs
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:56:23] <dgollub>  which plugin we should focus for  0.40 release?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:56:45] <fm>       file-sync and syncml ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:56:48] <dgollub>  file-sync, syncml, evolution, kdepim3 or kdepim4 both?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:57:01] <dgollub>  + vformat
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:57:12] <ChrisH>   kdepim3,kdepim4
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:57:13] <bricks>   dgollub: ack
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:57:22] <bricks>   -evo?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:57:29] <dgollub>  i see the need for kdepim3/kdepim4/evolution for real-life testing and stressing the vformat plugin
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:57:49] <dgollub>  bricks: i want to avoid dekstop-discussion .. if we do kdepim - we do evo as well...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:58:13] <dgollub>  i guess  parahal and f-bert make sure it's going to work...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:58:20] <bricks>   dgollub: ok. i am using gnome but not evo. most peaple ask for kde-pim
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:58:23] <ChrisH>   What is the Gnome default PIM suite?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:58:31] <dgollub>  i guess evo
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:58:36] <bricks>   ChrisH: depends on distribution
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:58:50] <bricks>   for Ubuntu it is thunderbird
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:59:09] <bricks>   debian i think evo
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:59:12] <dgollub>  bricks: the desktop discussion is very hot thing - i don't want to touch it ... we just do kdepim and evo the same time.. if you piss of gnome users because of missing evo the goal of opensync is lost...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:59:26] <bricks>   dgollub: akc
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:59:29] <dgollub>  ok thunderbird is not that easy - afaik .. no real interface
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:59:31] <Tuju>     http://opensync.org/ticket/890 support old+new dotfiles concurrently
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [11:59:58] <bricks>   dgollub: maybe we can switch henricks stuff to opensync?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:00:10] <dgollub>  ok 1 minute left - i have me next real meeting in 30 minutes... so lets speed up the last topic
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:00:17] <dgollub>  bricks: yeah - thats my goal on this...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:00:21] <Tuju>     [11:56] <dgollub> which plugin we should focus for  0.40 release? python-api
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:00:27] <bricks>   i read a lot about mozilla development
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:00:31] <Tuju>     motorola and conduit folks depend on this.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:00:43] <dgollub>  Tuju: oh yeah - thats a hot one...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:00:56] <dgollub>  but we don't have anyone working on this - right?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:01:03] <Tuju>     no, and no maintainer nor backup
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:01:07] <dgollub>  python plugin is #1
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:01:20] <Tuju>     it should be core part, blocking releases.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:01:29] <dgollub>  for sure
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:01:37] <Tuju>     http://opensync.org/wiki/OpenSyncHackers i tag it there.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:01:41] <dgollub>  i might take a look once it's the last thing...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:01:54] <dgollub>  next topic (time is running...)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:02] <dgollub>  Topic 6: How to meet users expections with 0.40?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:05] <ChrisH>   summup: kdepim3/kdepim4/evolution syncml file-sync python are needed for 0.40
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:15] <dgollub>  ack
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:23] <dgollub>   - very very high expections by users for 0.40
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:23] <dgollub>   - how to address this with the 0.40 release?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:24] <dgollub>   - postponing 0.40?!
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:30] <dgollub>   - proper communication on 0.40 release?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:31] <dgollub>   - big fat warning in release announcement?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:31] <dgollub>   - white-listing only certian plugins and devices?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:02:32] <dgollub>   - dry-run tests to spot bugs/issues in sync-setup before real-life use?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:03:05] <dgollub>  the very high expections by users scares me a lot....
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:03:24] <dgollub>  ... i get the expression everyone things with 0.40 we're gold and everything works out of the box...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:03:29] <dgollub>  ... i doubt this will be the case
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:03:56] <dgollub>  so we should make sure that we communicate 0.40 right to the users:
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:04:05] <dgollub>  the major different will hopefully be - less duplicates!
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:04:14] <bricks>   dgollub: you are right. this can cause a lot of frustration and new tickets
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:04:19] <dgollub>  this depends very hard on  that merger/capabilities get used ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:04:27] <dgollub>  ... this is unfortunately not the case  yet.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:04:45] <dgollub>  yeah - so we have to address this for 0.40 release
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:04:49] <Tuju>     http://opensync.org/wiki/OpenSyncHackers updated, vformat, python-api will block releases.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:05:00] <dgollub>  i don't want to postpone 0.40 ..  thats was the main reason to declare 0.30 as devel branch
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:05:12] <dgollub>   - "bad" plugins might harm 0.40-users-expections <--
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:05:31] <bricks>   we need a new roadmap
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:05:35] <Tuju>     we dont have evolution maintainer.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:05:52] <dgollub>  so one thing would be to only _release_ plugins which really make use of merger/capabilities... otherwise we end up in duplicate-hell
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:06:22] <Tuju>     btw, i marked that 0.41 would be the one to lift the distro pkging ban as there are the renaming of plugins and some tools.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:06:29] <Tuju>     http://opensync.org/roadmap 
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:06:52] <dgollub>  any other ideas to avoid frustration of users?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:07:04] <Tuju>     those will make changes into packages and those will break pkg builds. must be done before ban lift.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:07:04] <dgollub>  i thought also about introudcing tools for "dry-runs"
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:07:34] <dgollub>  i have one ticket which summaries the "next sync action"... which should help the users to identify issues in advance before writing/commting changes to their applications/devices...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:08:36] <dgollub>  my suggestion is: qualitiy, no quantity -> less plugin for 0.40 - but well tested and implemented used of merge/capabilities...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:08:43] <ChrisH>   There is allready a read-only switch for msynctool, should that be enough?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:08:46] <Tuju>     imo we cannot lock down the roadmap until we have: 1. all blocker parts have a maintainer 2. maintainer can review his tasks/tickets 3. maintainer can give estimate about the required time to fix those.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:08:56] <ChrisH>   enough for a dry-run scenario?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:08:57] <dgollub>  ... plugins provide tests to verify the plugin will work smoothly with device/application and their changes
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:09:24] <dgollub>  ChrisH: is the read-only switch working? ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:09:46] <dgollub>  lets postone the roadmap adjust  to next week...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:09:56] <Tuju>     dgollub: we could try to get the trunk automated builds for debian and fedora to get more testers, find more bugs, avoid bugs in final 0.40 release.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:09:57] <bricks>   ack
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:10:08] <ChrisH>   I assume for syncml it works. I asked Michael for this.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:10:48] <dgollub>  Tuju: tests == users ... they will get frustated as well... we need more dry-run-tools and validation-tools
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:10:59] <Tuju>     i already build pkgs for fedora myself, i could try to make scripts to make them into yum repos for current fedora releases.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:11:20] <Tuju>     dgollub: yep
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:11:30] <Tuju>     those are better if those can be done.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:12:00] <dgollub>  yeah - we should try to make such tools for 0.40 and highly recommend to use them - and only use opensync in production use if those tool pass on their setup
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:12:13] <dgollub>  i hope this avoids  _lots_ of frustion ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:12:24] <dgollub>  if then someone still uses opensync even if the validation tool fails -> bad
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:12:56] <Tuju>     also note that the commercil sync tools are not that perfect
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:13:04] <Tuju>     they create duplicates and fail too
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:13:55] <dgollub>  yeah - but they don't know  this.. they only have expereince with /dev/null ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:13:57] <dgollub>  ok next topic
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:08] <dgollub>  Topic 7: Frontends
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:10] <dgollub>  i want to skip that
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:16] <Tuju>     well, my message for whiners is, step in and help us make it better.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:17] <dgollub>  for timing  reason
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:28] <Tuju>     let's postpone 7.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:31] <dgollub>  Tuju: there are more whiners then devleopers
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:35] <ChrisH>   Frontends: We should not care about the frontends
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:40] <Tuju>     i'm immune for them. :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:44] <dgollub>  ok lets do topic 7 next week...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:56] <dgollub>  Topic 8: OpenSync 0.40 Roadmap
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:14:57] <Tuju>     we need tokoe and vkreause for that, teperrr too
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:01] <dgollub>  we have to reschedule the roadmap...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:01] <Tuju>     krause
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:11] <Tuju>     dgollub: not until we find maintainers
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:18] <dgollub>  we should discuss reschedule next week until some of the AIs are solved and we hopefully found some maintainers
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:23] <Tuju>     yep
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:29] <dgollub>  what i want to announce/discuss:
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:33] <dgollub>   - shrinking and freezing API
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:33] <dgollub>   - designing more unittests: mapping stress tests
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:33] <dgollub>      (hunting duplicated entries), ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:34] <dgollub>   - integration/status of capabilities and discovery?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:15:46] <dgollub>  this are things  we need to address beside the maintainers stuff of plugins...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:16:12] <Tuju>     API thing is important
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:16:17] <dgollub>  shrinking and freezing API - this is a hot one... we should unexport all functions/symbols which are not needed outside
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:16:30] <dgollub>  this is also the  XXX_private.h thing we discussed very breifly in berlin
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:16:38] <dgollub>  we should do this before 0.40
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:16:45] <Tuju>     #kontact folks should give comments about the parts of API they consumed for implementation
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:16:49] <bricks>   dgollub: shrink api for functions which are for a gui and for a plugin
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:17:07] <dgollub>  bricks: correct
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:17:26] <Tuju>     that's AI for people: vkrause, teperr, tokoe, <evolution maintainer>
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:17:43] <dgollub>  so everyone, if you feel you want to move stuf f to _private.h feel free to do so ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:17:48] <Tuju>     btw, evo2-sync should be renamed to evolution, I make a ticket for that.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:17:50] <dgollub>  .. i will start do the same soon
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:18:05] <dgollub>  and don't forget to strip the opensync.sym file ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:18:20] <dgollub>   - designing more unittests: mapping stress tests
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:18:21] <dgollub>      (hunting duplicated entries), ...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:18:24] <dgollub>  we skip this one
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:18:28] <dgollub>   - integration/status of capabilities and discovery? <---
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:18:48] <dgollub>  we need to get discovery workign at least for one plugin finally
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:23] <Tuju>     dgollub: that's syncml, and bellmich got the test phones yesterday.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:28] <dgollub>  it's not worth to do any real-life testing without working discovery/capabilities
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:33] <Tuju>     he has started the OMA DS implementation
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:40] <dgollub>  you mean DM?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:43] <Tuju>     yep
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:45] <Tuju>     sorry
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:47] <dgollub>  puuuh...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:51] <Tuju>     Device Management
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:55] <dgollub>  DS ... i though we're doing this for years  now :P
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:55] <Tuju>     that's part of it.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:19:58] <Tuju>     heh :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:20:24] <Tuju>     but we need his estimates about the schedule for the roadmap
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:20:34] <dgollub>  ok cool  - i hope this fits into opensync discovery/capabilities .. otherwise we  have a real problem
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:20:52] <Tuju>     file plugin would be bit dummy to do that 
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:21:02] <dgollub>  but anyone - if you have time please try to generate capabilities.xml by hand for now
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:21:05] <dgollub>  and test it
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:21:41] <Tuju>     http://opensync.org/ticket/891 ticket to rename all evo* stuff to 'evolution', whoever the maintainer will be.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:22:04] <dgollub>  ok - last ticket (time.. sorry)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:22:13] <dgollub>  Ticket 9: IRC Meetings
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:22:20] <dgollub>   - who will write next minutes? who will be backup?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:22:27] <dgollub>  next week it's not at 09:00UTC
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:22:44]     * Tuju changed trac default ticket version to 0.38.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:22:53] <dgollub>  http://www.opensync.org/~dgollub/opensync.ical
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:23:07] <dgollub>  DTSTART:20081120T140000Z
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:23:12] <Tuju>     where is the nexet agenda template?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:23:15] <Tuju>     draft
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:23:27] <dgollub>  there is none yet
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:23:32] <dgollub>  AI?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:23:47] <Tuju>     i think its part of the minutes writer as it's the leftovers 
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:23:49] <dgollub>  so volunteers for next week for taking minutes?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:23:54] <dgollub>  ok
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:24:02] <dgollub>  so i'll write Agenda for next week?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:24:11] <dgollub>  and write the minutes for this one?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:24:26] <Tuju>     i'd need space to collect post 0.40 devel environment task list for next year i guess.
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:24:27] <dgollub>  and who is writing minutes next week? and who is backup?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:24:57] <dgollub>  no voluenteers? i can do the minutes next time again .. until everyone feels conformtable with meetings like that
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:03] <Tuju>     dgollub: i'm not sure how much stuff i already have :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:17] <dgollub>  Tuju: i'll summarize that in the minutes - no worry
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:20] <Tuju>     i'd like to keep my promies.... :)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:28] <dgollub>  backup - anyone?
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:29] <Tuju>     promises...
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:33] <Tuju>     put me as backup
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:44] <dgollub>  Ok - next minutes: dgollub backup: Tuju
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:49] <dgollub>  ok - meeting closed
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:25:52] <dgollub>  have a nice day ;)
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:26:14] <dgollub>  i'll send the minutes around after lunch - i have me next meeting in 3 minutes
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:26:15] <dgollub>  byebye
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:26:20] <bricks>   bye
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:26:28] <Tuju>     i've log saved, will send it to dgollub
[Thu Nov 13 2008] [12:26:54] Topic      dgollub sets the channel topic to "http://opensync.org/ 0.38 | http://libsyncml.opensync.org/ 0.5.0 | http://opensync.org/wiki/FAQ | http://opensync.org/roadmap | http://libsyncml.opensync.org/roadmap | http://opensync.org/~dgollub/opensync.ical | http://pastebin.com/".